Dave Saltzer

Just bumping this in case anyone didn't see it and wanted to discuss it.

Yesterday (Tuesday) was Grichuk's birthday. He is working hard to finish the season strong and post good numbers. I won't be surprised to see him added to an AFL team.

A big thank you needs to be given to Mancini for transcribing this interview. Thanks for all your help!

Good blog. For the past few years I have been saying that Scioscia should argue more with umps and get kicked out more to fire up the team and bring them together as a group. As a team they have been off, and it has been apparent in their body language. If nothing else, why not have them all stay at a Howard Johnsons while on the road until they are over 500?

I definitely would not have put my money on that. But, he's making a strong case for himself this year!

It's not cheating if they are legal, that's my point. You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that the game is better now than it was when Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire were smashing 60+ a year. Football and basketball would have completely taken over American sports if not for the excitement the steroid era created. Yet we all sit here behind our computers and blast them? Sorry I'm above that.

I an look you straight in the face and tell you that the game is not better now as a result of PEDs. I can also look you straight in the eyes and tell you that I will not compromise my beliefs just to make it "easy" for those who are "above that". As I said in my first piece, most of the time I would rather do what is right over what is expedient. Aside from wanting to be right, I have found that when I do what is right, in the long run, I usually spend less time dealing with an issue than when sell out my beliefs.

Sweep under the rug? I'm not sure how you can say any of this has been swept under the rug. These reports have been out there for weeks and the suspensions are significant.

Meanwhile, the NFL has had 15 guys suspended already in 2013 for PEDs. Name one.

I'm a lot less offended by what MLB has done to clean up its game then I am with the media's incessant scrutinization of any whisper of MLB PED use while turning a blind eye the use of PEDs in its bellcow the NFL.

I think your post proves why so many, myself included, are focusing on this scandal and want to come down hard on players and teams so that MLB doesn't end up like the NFL. Every time they do wimpy of ishments and go soft on both the players and teams they take MLB one step closer to the NFL. It is pretty sad when many people think that NFL stands for National Felons League rather than National Football League. I do not want to see that happen to the game of baseball that I live so much.

Howdy!

I just had some out of town guests pop in and want to take their kids and my family to the Wednesday night game against Texas. I am willing to trade a pair of my Diamond Club seats for 8 tix in an upper level area. Ideally I would like to trade either my Sunday 8/18 tix or my Tuesday 8/20 tix, but do have games in September that I am willing to trade. And, I would prefer to sit between the base paths in either the 400s or 500s.

Please send me a private message if you are interested.

Thanks in advance!

Good analysis. I was never a big fan of Callaspo, and to see that Nelson is providing the same WAR is good to know. And, as someone else pointed out, if Green can do better, GREAT!

Again, I don't think you understand arbitration very well at all.  Public or internal pressure is completely irrelevant and MLB's arbitrator should NOT be watching the news or reading the newspapers right now.  In a perfect world, he has no idea how MLB and the public feel about A-Rod right now. 

 

There's no telling what the arbitrator is going to do, and they have much more latitude than a judge does in a courtroom.  Lack of precedent might not even be a problem because, again, this isn't a courtroom.  It's a waste of time to predict best case scenarios for either side. 

 

 

 

Gross miscarriage of the arbitration process? 

 

There hasn't been a hearing yet and you've already assumed that if the arbitrator doesn't rule in favor of MLB, it's a "gross miscarriage" of the process.  We don't know what evidence MLB has yet, so it's a bit premature to throw the arbitrator under the bus. 

 

As for the next CBA, the MLBPA is too powerful to roll over and give MLB the upperhand in anything.  This is especially true if the evidence later proves an overzealous attack on A-Rod. 

 

 

 

Plea bargaining happens THOUSANDS of times a day in courtrooms all over the country.  I don't think it has any effect on deterring others...short or long sentence -- it doesn't matter -- people are still going to make the same mistakes.

 

I realize this isn't a criminal case but the process MLB is using is quite similar.  What makes you think the next player is going to get off with a lesser punishment? 

Actually, I understand it very well. Sure, in an ideal world, an arbitrator should live in a bubble. But they don't. I don't think you really believe that they do, which is why you said in an "ideal world". So, my point still stands. But, even assuming that they did drag some arbitrator out of a bubble, that arbitrator will consider the effect of the precedent that s/he establishes. This isn't like the old salary arbitration where the arbitrator has to rule for one side or the other. S/he would have some latitude on the ruling. So, it would, as I say, most likely end up where back where they negotiated with A-Rod. The difference is, under that scenario, baseball could still maintain its integrity.

As for trying to predict what will happen in an arbitration, I guess you aren't too familiar with the legal process. That's what lawyers do all the time. You can't make an informed decision about seeing without measuring the risk of potential outcomes. Doctors do it all the time too (there's an 80% chance that this medicine will cure this disease so you should take it . . .). It's hardly a waste of time.

As for determining whether or not it will be a gross miscarriage, that happens all the time, regardless of what the facts are or are not in the situation. It's about the perception. The perception is that A-Rod is guilty (and his actions really have not helped his cause). So, even if he proves it, to the vast majority of baseball fans, who won't follow the nuances of the arbitration, it will appear that he got away with it. Since the vast majority of fans don't follow things as closely as many on here do, that will put pressure on baseball, the players union, and others to fix this perceived injustice.

The MLBPA is only as strong as its members. On this issue, they have gone from solidly opposing testing to being mostly for testing and punishing. They wouldn't have much strength on this issue and would be best served to get out in front of it rather than having worse imposed on them through federal policy or something. At this point, I truly doubt that the evidence against A-Rod is that weak. And, even if it were, as I said before, it's about the perception of it.

Yes, plea bargaining happens all the time. Just more proof that we accept what is expedient far too often over what is right. Our criminal code has lost a lot of its deterrent power because it gives out too many slaps on the wrist instead of more stern punishment.

What makes me think that the next set of players would get off with less punishment is history. Using your plea bargaining analogy, have you ever really seen areas of the law where they allowed large amounts of plea bargaining result in stiffer penalties over time? If, and when it does (which is very rare--almost always it results in less punishment over time) it is usually the result of some dramatic case that changes the public's perception of that crime.

The case against A-Rod is one such case that really could change the perception of PEDs in the sport. They should do the right thing here.

I get the feeling that Dave doesn't understand the arbitration process at all.   I don't think he would have written this article if he did...

 

The appeal would go to MLB's new arbitrator, and it's entirely possible that A-Rod's lifetime ban would be completely overturned on procedural grounds and/or lack of precedent.  That means A-Rod would get every dime he is owed in back wages and have to be reinstated as if the Biogenesis scandal never took place.  There is no Court of Appeals for arbitrator decisions and judges almost never set aside the findings of an arbitrator.  This is why Ryan Braun got away with his failed drug test -- MLB was powerless to overturn the decision by former arbitrator Shyam Das.  The best they could do was fire him afterwards. 

 

So all this talk about "doing the right thing" by banning A-Rod for life is wishful thinking at best.  Dropping the hammer especially hard on A-Rod could blow up in their face by letting it go to arbitration. 

Actually MP, I really do understand the arbitration process very well. An arbitrator COULD completely overturn it, but I really do not see that as likely at all. With all the public pressure, as well as the pressure from the owners and the players (sentiment from the players has clearly shifted on this issue), an arbitrator might overturn the lifetime ban, but at most, would knock it down to a 150 game suspension or so. Or, in other words, about the same as what A-Rod is trying to negotiate with MLB. The difference is, by going for the ban, MLB looks like it is trying to do the right thing, and the public would be more forgiving of the sport if an arbitrator knocks it down. If baseball negotiates the same deal with A-Rod, though, it appears as though once again the high and mighty get away with whatever they want, and baseball will suffer. 

Let's take the worst case from an arbitrator: the case is entirely overturned and A-Rod is reinstated. That would give MLB the upper hand in the next CBA. As noted, the players sentiment has shifted on the issue. The owners could use this gross miscarriage of the arbitration process to their advantage to get a morality clause written as a standard part of every future contract or a much stiffer set of penalties in the next negotiations. The players union would have a very tough time publicly trying to defend against that after an arbitrator reinstated A-Rod. All the evidence would come out against him (which may include criminal charges as the fed is finally looking into the issue), and by extension, all the players, and they would have to cave quickly on a much more stringent system as a result. So, going back to the first premise (that an arbitrator would not completely overturn the ban), there would be a lot of pressure from the players union to oppose a complete overturn of a lifetime ban, meaning A-Rod ends up with about 150 game ban.

Thank you, though, for helping to make another one of my points about why they should give him the lifetime ban. As you pointed out, there's a potential lack of precedence that A-Rod's lawyers could argue. I am well aware of this, which is why I said if baseball negotiates a deal with A-Rod, the next player will negotiate a deal for less time than A-Rod. Any subsequent player will argue that he did not lie as much, obstruct the investigation as much, or interfere as much as A-Rod is alleged to have done. So, that player will argue that his punishment should be less than A-Rod's, and will in fact get less. Over time, as the punishments become less and less severe, the punishment will no longer deter players, and in fact, the allure of the big money that will come with steroids will make them more common. The only way to overcome this is to drop the hammer on someone. And, in that regard, A-Rod is the ideal person since he has blatantly lied about taking the PEDs and has allegedly interfered or obstructed the investigation. If they can't punish him severely, who can they?

Given the choice between doing what's right and doing what's expedient, baseball should do what's right, especially since the down side is that it will result in about the same punishment for A-Rod. If baseball continues to do the expedient thing instead of the right thing, it will have trouble remaining relevant over time.

Sappington just got a well deserved promotion to AA Arkansas. Good luck to him there. I think he will be a Major Leaguer and a solid workhorse #3 or #4 at the least.

A very good article. I will have to change the piece that I am writing to cover some different areas.

Poozy, the Angels have more than just Borenstein doing well. Heck, just looking at the California League, there's Sappington, Yarbrough, Stamets just to name a few. At Arkansas, there's Grichuk, Lindsey (who should have been on that list based on what scouts are telling me), Marin, besides Cowart. Triple A is pretty much a wasteland behind Calhoun, but Orem is loaded with talent. Rondon will be in our Top 10 next year. He is one of many with upside there.

So, it's not like the sky is falling. Is our organization thin and on the week side? Yes. Is it devoid of talent? No.

If you all want to have some fun tonight, tune in online to the Owls game and log on to chat with the announcers and fans at www.oremowlz.com.

I'm hoping that it's a sign that the velocity is back. He's a good guy and I would like to see him do well.

The more I'm seeing the guys in Orem, the more excited I am about the Minor Leagues. There are a lot of guys worth following and getting to know. You will see many in our 2014 Top Prospects List.

Suite for me and probably a guest.

Bumping this to get it moved to the Future Angels section. Thanks mods.

I am definitely enjoying the series and all the hard work going into it on a regular basis. Looking back on that great season has been a lot of fun, especially compared to this season at times.

Thanks everyone for the compliments. Jaime was a great person to interview. I truly believe that she is going to accomplish a lot in sports broadcasting and that we will all be saying "Remember when . . . " as we continue to see her throughout her career. For those who think what she, or for that matter any of the reporters, is easy, think again. It is LONG hours getting ready and studying details and nuances of the game just to give a taste of it to us, the fans.

Yep! I agree. Scott, you did a great job moderating today. Good questions, and got a lot of good info!

Which players are likely to skip a level and make the jump to the IE66ers next year?

I will be there and can help out if need be.