Pancake Bear

I’ll miss it. It’s been a pleasure up till now.

Compare Cole on the Pirates vs. Astros and Archer on the Pirates vs. Rays. Pitching coach issues or decline for Archer? Cole stopped throwing 2 seamers and started throwing high heat and going for K’s. Pirates has him pitching to contact.

I wouldn’t. I’d be cautiously optimistic that maybe we do okay in the next two years. Huge risk beyond. More of a risk than Cole and more money doled our for it.

I said they’d get Cole, Maldonado, and make a small trade during the meetings. I’m probably massively optimistic, but wth.

Trout because he’s an Angel for life. But Maddon’s was fascinating to listen to his philosophy of baseball. He’d be a heck of a lot of fun to talk baseball with.

I think the point is maybe he signs with the Dodgers. They’re the unexpected team.

That’s why I said we need to convince him we’re for real by bringing in another big name.

Does anyone know how many times Arte has gone after a big name free agent only for them to sign in NY or vice versa? Texeira, obviously. Any others? I’m just wondering whether Arte is willing to be outbid again.

Where’d you get 8.82? I saw 12.7. Edit: https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/may/31/christine-quinn/does-new-york-state-have-second-highest-tax-wealth/ “The combined state and local income tax rate in New York City is 12.7 percent for people who make about $1 million or more. That’s less than California’s 13.3 percent state income tax rate, but more than the rates in the other states.“

If there was a deal it would already be announced by someone else also. Passan says no formal offers have been made. He said that after Gammons. Passan is more reliable than Gammons.

Okay, so Trout and I are both biased. Ohtani? He signed with us. Presumably he wasn’t told that we’re going to be 90 loss team. You seem to be confusing defeatism with realism. Neither of us knows what Cole will do, or who will spend the most money, or what his priorities are. I just find the notion that he wouldn’t consider the Angels competitive to be strange. We have one big hole - starting pitching. Cole takes over from the worst pitcher practically creates a 10 win shift by itself. We aren’t that far from contention. It doesn’t take a homer to see that.

But Trout did? You’re talking in circles as far as I can see. If Trout was willing to believe we were close to contention with as good as long term window as anyone else, why couldn’t Cole be convinced of the same? You say my opinion is wrong because I’m a homer, but yours is automatically right because you’re...what’s exactly? Pessimism and realism aren’t the same thing. Just because I’m more optimistic than you are about our chances doesn’t mean your view is more objective or realistic.

This just isn’t accurate. Until the bottom fell out with starting pitching, we were competing with the top teams. Then Skaggs died, Cahill and Harvey sucked, and it dragged everything else down. This year? Our coaching staff is monumentally better. Everyone is healthy. Ohtani is pitching (as opposed to last year). Canning has more development. Adell - a top five prospect - is on the verge of making the show. Calling us a 90 loss team just isn’t accurate. It’s either disingenuous or ignorant. It won’t stand up to serious scrutiny. Cole will go where he’s paid the most. Unless he is committed to being a Yankee. Spurning them after being drafted suggests he isn’t.

Unless it was an announcement (it wasn’t), it’s meaningless.

Sure it is. Make it clear we’re spending to contend and offer him more money than the others teams. Only way he should sign elsewhere is if he’s got his heart set on being a Yankee. Arte has no business being outbid. The Yankees do not have our desperate need for an ace. They want one. We need one. That ought to be the difference in money. We’ll see if it is.

Free agency isn’t relevant for Trout. He could’ve waited it out. He chose not to because he was convicted we would compete. Agree somewhat on the second. Thats why I think Arte should go after another top guy and spend big for 2-3 seasons.

Eppler convinced Trout we’re competing. I don’t see the issue. Last year isn’t this year.

Why not both? Arte better make it clear he’s bout winning or the negotiation is already over. If we don’t expect to compete even in 2020, we probably will have a hard time selling it. He’s not signing with the Angels just to play in Orange County.

??? Seriously?

I’d prefer Rendon and then use 1-2 of the infielders in a trade for another pitcher. Strasburg seems less likely to be worth his contract than Rendon to me.

Strangely, I think Bowden’s 8/288 (36aav) may end up correct. We’ll see, though. Haven’t heard any numbers yet, but it’s looking expensive. Hope Arte doesn’t cheap out. Strasburg is a poor consolation prize and we might not even get him.

I didn't make any predictions, but that's because I suck at predictions. I'm wrong way more often than I'm right. Although I bet my brother a round of golf back in 2012 that the Angels would sign C.J. Wilson. Dumb bet on my part, but it was cool to win.

I disagree. (Edited for language - apologies to Lou) How much did Arte buy the Angels for and how much are they worth now? He can easily afford to make less over 2-3 seasons and make it back in 6-7 when the teams sucks again or the farm is cheap.

Rendon would be less than 250, fwiw. Also, there’s no we. It’s Arte’s money. I’m just saying he needs to figure out what his priorities are and quit jerking Trout and the fans around while saying one thing and not following through.

This is it for me. Obviously Arte spends a lot of money on the team. I don’t begrudge him wanting to make money. It’s his, he can do whatever he wants with it. What does bug me is when he talks about the importance or winning and legacy and isn’t willing to go all in. He cheaps out or spends on the wrong guy (Wells, Hamilton, etc). The team has a huge chance to make up for the last 7 years this offseason. It requires Arte to go bigger than he’s ever gone. It’s a big ask. I get that. And if Arte cares more about his bottom line than those other things, so be it. But this is his chance. This is the time to make a move. It’ll take a couple of years of big money if he has the sand for that, but he can afford it, and if he really means what he says in public and doesn’t just care about putting a .500 team out there, he needs to go big. Otherwise, don’t fire Ausmus and go get Maddon. Don’t re-sign Trout and tell him we’re committed to winning. It’s pointless if all we care about is 85 wins.