mulwin444

This is me liking this post twice

Yep, anything that ultimately adds to the AW nomenclature is a win...

Looking at our recent past in regards to trading prospects for established MLB players: Under Reagins: Sean Rodriguez, Matthew Sweeney, and Alex Torres for Scott Kazmir - Meh for Bleghhhhhhh. Rodriguez has had a couple decent seasons as a utility infielder and Alex Torres was good for a couple season as a reliever but neither amounted to much. Kazmir was decent for good for 6 starts in 2009 then completely fell apart. Joe Saunders, Rafael Rodriguez, Patrick Corbin, and Tyler Skaggs for Dan Haren - It felt brutal then in cost even if the timing made sense and Haren only really having a solid season and a half before declining in 2012 during the playoff hunt made it a bit worse. Under Dipoto: Ariel Pena, Johnny Hellweg, and Jean Segura for Zack Greinke - Pena and Hellweg didn't amount to much but Segura has since had a couple of All Star seasons for different teams since the trade. Hurt even more that Greinke not surprisingly took the most cash a team could offer the next offseason and left after 13 decent start Pestano for Clevinger - The one most invoked in terms of "getting owned" in a deal, this was kind of meh when it happened because Clevinger, while talented, had only made it to A+ ball and put up a 4.41 ERA 1.371 WHIP at age 23. Obviously, it's been lopsided since then. Sean O'Sullivan and Will Smith for Alberto Callaspo - Alberto put up 7.6 WAR in what amounted to 3 seasons with the Angels while Will Smith has emerged as a terrific reliever. Not a terrible result on either side. Tyler Chatwood for Chris Ianetta - As a catcher mostly known for his offense, Ianetta played well putting up 6.2 WAR in 4 seasons while Chatwood has still been searching for some consistency in his results. Taylor Lindsey, Elliot Morris, R. J. Alvarez, Jose Rondon for Huston Street and Trevor Gott - Trade allowed us to coin the term "Rondons" for what amounts to the prospect being the equivalent of magic beans. Four Rondons traded for Street who was part magical, decent and awful in three seasons with the Angels while said Rondons have done nothing. Also, Gott had a good enough 2015 to allow him to be traded for someone else the next season. Peter Bourjos and Randal Grichuk for David Freese and Fernando Salas - Despite playing 255 games over 2 seasons, it always felt like Freese was injured and he put up the quietest 3.9 WAR in memory. Fernando Salas was mostly known for disappointing Angels' fans. On the flip side, Bourjos never came close to matching his 4.9 WAR 2011 season and Grichuk has emerged as a essentially a 2 WAR OFer that will fill a roster spot on a sub-.500 team. In the end, nobody got what they wanted but neither were impactful. Jordan Walden for Tommy Hansen - Neither worked out for either team. Under Eppler: Chris Ellis, Sean Newcomb, and Eric Aybar for Andrelton Simmons and Jose Briceno - A little confession, I didn't like this trade at the time as it seemed we were good with Aybar at SS and really needed SP but hard to argue with the results since. Simmons has put up a 20.2 WAR since 2016 and Newcomb is a reliever in ATL. Trevor Gott and Michael Brady for Yunel Escobar - Gott has been mostly hit and miss since the trade but he's young enough to turn a corner at some point while Escobar was a decent fill-in despite just being an odd character in general. Seemed like a decent overall trade then and it seemed to age well. Grayson Long and Elvin Rodriguez for Justin Upton - Despite some mixed results from Upton since being acquired in 2017, Eppler gave up a pitcher who retired after 1 start with Detroit's AA affiliate and another who is 21 in A+ ball sporting a 3.77 ERA...not a bad price for a 4 WAR player. Conor Lillis-White for Tommy LaStella - LaStella broke out offensively for the Angels in 2019 while Lillis-White broke out his lawn chair. So, in the end, a majority of the Rondons we hold so dearly will likely not amount to much more than AA/AAA fodder. While you shouldn't just give them away, there no reason not to pull the trigger when the deal makes sense in context of your team's current situation.

Tropea-NO!

I think that's definitely a possibility with either Syndegaard, Matz, and Stroman

Easy, Captain Hyperbole...1. I don't think they're awesome 2. I don't think Billy is the best GM in the business 3. Pessimists often view themselves as realists and optimists as slavish nut-swingers...and vice-versa. Let's keep it in context, my comments are mostly about the Ringer using projected pitcher WAR to criticize the Angels' offseason pitching acquisitions. Given that pitching WAR is problematic, and using projected pitching WAR even more so, I don't see how my comments are that incendiary. Also, just to give you my own mindset in regards to this team and their moves, I think they are a 85-90 win team right now...you know, kinda where you put them as well. For me, their remaining needs are a mid-rotation starter and a solid back-end reliever...they have pitching depth but it's all middle-to-bottom heavy in talent and they need to push that middle upward if they want to crack 90 wins.

Good ol' Frankie...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200809170.shtml Think it was this one. The sting was lessened by the fact they won the division that season but, yeah, that was unforgettable.

And, as we all know, free agent acquisition is not the only method of improving the starting pitching, we still have assets to trade, and we still have payroll room to play with for move of significance. Considering a possible 6 man rotation, we are looking at Ohtani, Teheren, Heaney, Bundy, Canning and I'm guessing either Pena, Sandoval or Barria as the 6th option/swing man. I believe we absolutely have to acquire a mid-rotation starter at least in order to minimize the innings for both Ohtani and Canning and improve the quality of the weekly starts overall but, considering the last 4 seasons, this is the best the rotation has looked since 2015.

I did, didn't I? Ha (snort)

Hmm, all their numbers are available in baseball prospectus so I didn't pull this out of my ass but, sure, I used my "gut" and we should also totally ignore recent injury history and just sort by "projected 2020 pitching WAR" to sign our players because that's how big-pants wearin' GMs do it in the MLB, I reckon.

No...Gibson, apart from a couple decent seasons (2015 and 2018), has been pretty mediocre (4.52 ERA 1.411 WHIP 94 ERA+ in 1,000+ IP) and was not good last season (4.84 ERA 1.444 WHIP 95 ERA+). How is committing 3 years and $28 mil better than getting Teheren (3.67 ERA 1.211 WHIP 110 ERA+ in 1,300+ IP, 3.81 ERA 1.323 WHIP 119 ERA+ in 2019) for 1/$9 mil? Gausman wasn't good last season and ended the season as a reliever and he got the same deal as Teheren. Pineda would have been a nice get on a one year deal but coming off a PED suspension, not mention missing big swaths of time throughout his career (all of 2012, 2013, 2018, almost all of 2014 and half of 2017), I'm guessing Eppler is looking for something more stable and predictable after 4 years of uncertainty. Who else? I mean, seriously, any one of these guys, apart from the relievers on the list, are capable of a decent year but how is adding Miley or Porcello or Anderson or Perez or Bailey or Roark or Hill or Gonzalez better than Teheren and Bundy at this point? I know we like get lost in the numbers and indulge in "what if" scenarios but "taking a chance" on guys like Graveman, Nelson, or Tyler Anderson to be healthy and productive or an unknown factor like Lindblom to pan out to something other than a 4 starter is a hell of a gamble after you gambled on Cahill continuing his 2018 season and Harvey returning to form just a year prior. Not to mention both Teheren and Bundy are under 30 and have been relatively healthy.

Yeah, he's not an ace, and his WHIP is a bit concerning, but I'm expecting Marsh (plus) to be the price for a top of rotation starter in his prime with 2 years left of control. I think a pitcher would be included in COL asking price as well. Don't know if Marsh/Sandoval would be enough...

If we could get 2018's version of David Price, I'd be down for acquiring him but I don't think Boston would be trying to move him if that was the case. I think he's damaged goods at this point. I'd love to get Gray but unsure of how much of an overpay it would take.

This is dumb: "Let’s see by listing the free-agent pitchers who have signed a contract this winter, ordered by projected 2020 WAR () from FanGraphs.We’ll stop when we reach one who signed with the Angels: Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg, Zack Wheeler, Kyle Gibson, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Madison Bumgarner, Dallas Keuchel, Kevin Gausman, Cole Hamels, Josh Lindblom, Rick Porcello, Wade Miley, Brett Anderson, Michael Pineda, Adam Wainwright, Martín Pérez, Homer Bailey, Tanner Roark, Jordan Lyles, Rich Hill, Kendall Graveman, Gio González, Dellin Betances, Will Harris, Tyler Anderson, Will Smith, Drew Pomeranz, Chris Martin, Blake Treinen, Jake Diekman, Jimmy Nelson, Julio Teheran." Let's see...Gibson (5 starter), Gausman (was awful last season), Lindblom (an unknown), Porcello (trash), Miley (5 starter), Anderson (has pitched 175 IP 3 times - 2009, 2016, 2019), Pineda (PED user with history of elbow and shoulder issues), Wainwright (38 amd injury prone), Perez (awful), Bailey (meh), Roark (blah), Lyles (once a bad starter, then a decent reliever, trying to start again), Hill (seriously?), Graveman (7 shitty starts in 2019), Gonzalez (still hasn't signed), Betances (reliever), Anderson (5 shitty starts in 2019), Smith (reliever), Pomeranz (reliever), Martin (meh reliever), Treinen (reliever), Diekman (bad reliever), Nelson (injury prone)... Talk about a padded list...am I supposed to take this article seriously after this?

I'm not mocking him, as $1 million is chump change, and, if it was 2018/2019, I'd say go for it but Eppler's entire time as GM has been dealing with guys with arm injuries further highlighted by the fact that last season only one pitcher made it to 100 innings. At some point, you have use your resources and roster spots for reasonably healthy arms with some guarantee of return. On one side, people are blasting the Angels for not being able to stay healthy and then, on the other side, pushing for signing guys like Alex Wood, who are talented but injury prone. The last few offseasons we've gone into April with supposedly 10 deep rotational depth only to see them drop like flies by July to the point we are depending on guys like Oliver Drake, Troy Scribner, Parker Bridwell, Deck McGuire, Odrisamir Despaigne, John Lamb, Chris Stratton, and Dillon Peters to give us someone who might make it through 5 decent innings in order to avoid a bullpen game. At this point, with who is projected to be in the rotation (Ohtani, Heaney, Teheren, Bundy, Canning), the Angels need guys that can pitch above a 4 starter in quality and are healthy enough to give them 150+ IP.

Hmmm, not sure it's wise of Eppler to commit money and a roster spot to pitcher with recent shoulder and elbow issues when all he's been dealing with since he became a GM is pitchers shoulder and elbow issues. How exactly did he "whiff" on this one? Not finding the right fortune teller?

Death, taxes and Lou's receipts...

Is this...is this a "Kelvin Escobar" thing?

Garret Anderson in the minors: 23 HRs/.729 OPS in 552 games at all minor league levels Jo Adell in the minors: 38 HRs/.870 OPS in 248 games at all minor league levels Hmm, not getting a "Garret Anderson" vibe here

Likely but we have to match up. Pirates were ready to move Cole with 2 years left of control...who'd fit that category now? Noah Syndegaard - Free agent in 2022, he's been trending downward since his peak in 2016 due to injury. Will cost you, at minimum, one of Marsh/Adell and Canning. Steve Matz - Free agent in 2022, never as dominant as Syndegaard and seems like a SP closer to the back-end of the rotation as opposed to the front but won't cost you Adell. Caleb Smith - Free agent in 2024 so more years of control but less years of success so it would be a gamble. Depends on how many years away the Marlins think they are from competing. Robbie Ray - Free agent in 2021 so not an exact match but price would likely be less than Syngaard/Matz and he's been pretty average the last two seasons (107 ERA+ in 2018, 103 ERA+ in 2019) but he'd be top of the rotation for us Jon Gray - Free agent in 2022, has been good recently enough (2017, 2019) to seriously consider...will likely cost Marsh to begin with. Mike Clevinger - Free agent 2023, will cost Adell...nuff said. Matthew Boyd - Free agent in 2023, will likely cost Marsh plus a legit SP prospect. That's kinda it...Gray, Syndegaard, and Matz had the same years left as Cole but I'm not sure any one of them has his "stuff". Of everyone though, the closest might be Syndegaard if he is truly healthy.

"Sane Planning, Sensible Tomorrow"!

Didn't he fracture his leg? I think you probably referencing Jake Lamb... Regardless, while AAA PCL is not the friendliest environment to develop, the Angels obviously didn't see enough to keep him around.