TurboFan

Tampa Bay  >>>>  Angels

Well that was entertaining! Wow. Go Halos!

15 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Phil said “I still call our young pitchers a work in progress. They’re learning with talented stuff and are just going to continue to get better.”

It is not a given that any young pitcher is just going to continue to get better. Exhibit A is Detmers and Sandoval. Two steps backwards.  I don’t see evidence that the organization is competent at advancing the craft of young pitchers. I know Phil has expressed faith in Matt Weiss and the players mostly like him and all, but with a long list of pitching underperformances this year, they most definitely need better coaching and development going forward. The pitching was much less affected by injuries than the position players this season, yet they let the team down. Had the youngsters all improved as Phil suggests they do, we would be in a far stronger position today.

Giolito got his first start for Cleveland today. 9 runs in 3.0 innings taking the L.

Twins 20 - Guardians 6. Our momentum has apparently followed him to Cleveland. We’ll see what Clev pitching coaches can do with him the rest of the month. Good to have him off our payroll.

This performance resembles giving up.

Loup the setup man for Lopez. What an awful month.

Loup walks lead off hitter - again. We must be better.

Grichuk auditioning now.

In the pregame interview, Nevin said one of the things Silseth went down to the minors to work on was getting ahead of the count. He applied that to today’s game by throwing a first pitch strike to the first batter. Yikes.

3 minutes ago, ArkyAngelsFan said:

You make a bunch of excellent points. But do we know that Ohtani has said he wants to be known as the greatest player ever? 

~ArkyAngelsFan~

I have not heard it from his lips of course, he is too modest for that kind of bragadocio. But I heard it from some talking head somewhere, and I can believe it.

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I'm hoping this winter goes one of two ways...

1) the Angels made the playoffs and re-sign Ohtani. The young core delivered, but we are immediately back in the cycle of needing to support the team without a farm like the last decade. Maybe Perry's quick-to-majors drafting solves that. 
2) the Angels miss the playoffs, Ohtani walks, maybe Arte sells, and the Angels can finally pull the plug and allow a 1-2 year rebuild. Keep Neto, Detmers, O'Hoppe, Moniak, see who you can get for Sandoval, Ward, Rengifo, Thaiss, Canning, Estevez, Drury. Go the full rebuild mode, sign a bunch of cheap rebound FAs to plug the gaps, let the kids churn for a year or two, and hope it all coalesces around 2025/2026.|

That's giving me a little bit of peace in these trades. 

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Well, there's still the third - and maybe likeliest scenario. 

The Angels don't make the playoffs, Ohtani walks, and they don't go full rebuild, instead desperately trying to immediately compete again in a stacked division, signing a bunch of bad deals for mid/big names to try and replace Ohtani and appease casual fans with name familiarity, driving payroll way back up, all with no farm to support.

If they fall short and Ohtani walks, they need to give up on this 'all-in to win' mentality that's dominated the Trout window, acknowledge that they need to commit to the farm, and endure a season or two of a team with very little expectation of competing. Trade away controllable talent like Sandoval and Canning and Ward ASAP instead of letting them walk and keep drafting solid, quick-to-bigs guys.

Quote

 

How about a forth scenario? I know many here think that if the Angels fail to make the playoffs, we lose Ohtani to free agency. I don’t think that is a foregone conclusion. Hear me out. While that might be a logical and correct conclusion for most any shining star, I don’t think Ohtani is just any shining star. He is probably not motivated by top dollar like many we have seen. More than top dollar he wants to play out his career with a team that will partner with him to achieve his true motivation - to be known as the greatest player to ever play the game. The Angels have bent over backwards to be that partner to the point he calls almost all of his own shots on how he is used. I suspect he appreciates that. He knows that some teams will not be so accommodating. Sure the objective of the display of all-in moves made in the last week are for the objective of making the playoffs now, but I suspect that possibly even more than that it is to retain Ohtani in any case, and also demonstrate to Trout that the Angels are dead serious about getting him deep into the postseason as Arte has promised Trout he would try his best to do. So I believe (perhaps a minority opinion) that Ohtani will possibly extend even if the Angels miss the playoffs, as long as Ohtani is impressed by the management’s effort and believes next year will be better (player health being better). I think the Angels should offer Ohtani a high annual salary deal with an opt-out option for him each and every year. In other words, we went all-in balls to the wall in 2023, and we commit to it again in 2024, etc. and if we don’t keep our promise, we won’t hold you here if you would rather leave.  The Angels must say “if we go down, we are going down fighting for all our worth.” Whether they succeed or fail at making playoffs, in this scenario with Ohtani and Trout, the Angels cannot afford to approach it in reserved fashion. And they are not thus far.

1 hour ago, case said:

Disgusting moves.  Going to destroy the weak farm we already have for a tiny percentage chance of making the playoffs.

I’m pretty sure that building the farm is not a priority for Perry at this particular moment. Not even a consideration two days before the trade deadline and after committing to all in for 2023.

Who could have imagined in April that nearing the trade deadline we would be “all-in” yet fielding an infield of Escobar, Velazquez, Stefanic and Moose, with Rengifo in left ? 

1 minute ago, Erstad Grit said:

Couldn't do that with the bases loaded Cabbage?

Well there were runners in scoring position then, so. - No.

If we are to make a serious run at the last playoff spot, we gonna need all our injured players back very soon.

Detroit made us look like we are really good. Toronto not cooperating.

3 minutes ago, No Roles said:

are angels back on bally tomorrow?

Yes. But Sunday is Peacock+

It’s a reverse buttercup! 

Not funny. Stupid.

I think we, the Angels fans, may be screwed whether we continue patching or sell and rebuild. Because the organization as a whole has not demonstrated a proficiency for selecting or developing talent. I am afraid a rebuild won't get properly rebuilt by this organization. It seems to me that a rebuild of the upper management, followed by a rebuild of the baseball organization, must precede a rebuild of the 40 man roster. My only hope is a miraculous and sudden turnaround. It doesn't seem possible, but that is why a miracle is required.

Looking for some optimism and some perspective, consider that in the last 32 games since the Angels beat the Astros 2-1 on June 4, every team in the American League West has lost ground with the exception of Seattle which was .500 then and is at .500 now. Nobody is a winner. Second best in the division is a tie between the Angels and Astros who are both down -2 games. Next is Texas at -6 games in the same period, followed by Oakland who are only one game worse that Texas at -7 in that period. As bad as we seem (are), the entire division has been on a slow slide for 5 weeks. Texas and Houston have not been pulling away, we've just fallen off. The competition is giving us a hand, but we still can't capitalize. Painful.

25 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

On that day, 53 years ago today, I was totally oblivious of what Clyde Wright was doing to Oakland because I was still in Vietnam fighting NVA and VC and trying to survive. I was successful at that and was outa there by September. Recon, 3rd battalion/8th infantry regiment, 4th Infantry Division. I’m still kick in’

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

So he's unclutch? 

That is what Trendon implied. Just quoting Taylor on how he feels about his own approach, which could explain it. Even if he has been unclutch lately, he can go back to clutch quickly, I hope.

Ward said. “When you realize there’s runners in scoring position, I think that puts added pressure on you and that thought isn’t good.”
 

I believe Taylor just explained the reason for us very succinctly.

13 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

So now he just needs to go 0-3 with 2 Ks and I'm a genious.

 

Before you can be considered a genius, you first must know how to spell it.