Angels Fan Forever

3 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Rendon would have received a similar contract elsewhere

Two years in I still vote for elsewhere. 

Rendon is a very good player but he is overvalued based on his contract. And I could be wrong but I don't think he is going to age well in this league.

He benefited from the timing of his career year and an owner who wanted to make something happen after losing out on the hometown pitcher he coveted.

He's only hit 30 HR's once in his 9 years in the league.

I just don't think he is worthy of being the 2nd highest paid player and the highest paid infielder in MLB.

I mean, good for him, but I think his contract will be looked back at as another huge mistake for our franchise.

1 minute ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Change your name to Arte’s Victim and I’ll change mine to Arte’s Ego. 

Victim? No.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/2022/salary/

Just now, Hells Rainbow said:

This is such horse shit.  

I agree. No fucking way should Rendon be paid this much.

He's the new Pujols. Except Pujols showed up...

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

Now do Shohei.

Arte must have a small ego.

That's silly Lou. You know how it works...

35 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

He was top ten in MVP last year and this year he’s injured. So he’s proved when healthy to be a very valuable player.  

And next time he is on the field he will be the second highest paid player in baseball - behind Mike Trout. (Source: Spotrac)

He is not that. Hell, he's not even the 2nd best third basemen.

Overpaid because of Arte's ego.

Good for him.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/2022/salary/

17 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Dude, home runs aren't everything. As of four months ago, Rendon was one of the best players in baseball, with the 3rd highest fWAR and 9th highest wRC+ from 2017-20. And a very good third baseman, to boot. He's struggled for all of 58 games due to what turns out to be a serious injury, and now is out for the year. Let's give the guy some slack. 

I just never thought he was a $250 M player and two years in he's proving not to be.

I still think signing Rendon was an over-reaction to Arte being denied by Cole and the Yankees.

11 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Trading Watson didn’t make the team better.  Trading Heaney doesn’t make this team better.  Arte will pay a player to go away.  Arte doesn’t just give money to a team like the Yankees or the Dodgers or the Red Sox in an effort to be a better team this year.  Arte knows this team was “selling”.  

Nope. As you have said. They should have sold Raisel. They didn't.

Instead they sold Heaney and got better. They sold Watson and got better.

They traded two guys who made no difference for a return that made them better immediately but did not trade players who would have signaled they were giving up on the season even if it made sense because of 

1 minute ago, Hells Rainbow said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/mlb-free-agent-predictions-2020.html

This article had predictions of what they thought guys would get paid that off season.  They were somewhat accurate and when they were way off it was because they didn’t predict enough dollars.  They predicted Rendon would get $235 million, he got $245 million.  So, like I said, the Angels gave him the going rate for a player of his caliber heading into free agency.  

Doesn't have anything to do with this. If they were wrong and he's not with it then they were wrong and he's not worth it.

Rendon was not worth $250 M in my opinion.

His value was inflated by a career year and a WS win.

1 minute ago, Hells Rainbow said:

I agree that they should have traded him.  I disagree it was because of Arte’s ego.  If that was true his ego wouldn’t have him paying money to take Heaney.  

Sure it would. Arte is not adverse to paying money. Obviously. He's adverse to waving the white flag.

Trading Heaney made the team better this year. Easy sell for Minasian to his boss.

Trading Raisel made the team worse this year. Not a thing Arte would be open to.

24 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well, he's not a pure power hitter so wasn't paid just for his homers. If you look at his career, he's more of a 25 HR guy who hit 34 one year.

True. Only has one year of 30+ HR's. 

He's the only guy ever to get $250 M when only having one year with 30 HR's.

That says a lot.

3 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

My opinion is Maddon and Minasian want to re-sign Raisel. 

My opinion is Arte didn't want them to trade Raisel but he would be open to paying for him to come back.

Because a trade would have signaled the Angels were giving up and Arte's intellectual and emotional makeup is not conducive to doing this.

 I think we can both agree the Angels could have got a few really nice prospects for Raisel.

Raisel makes $9.1 this year. What would it take to resign him? $14 M per year? 3/42?

Comps are Will Smith at $13 M, Hendriks at $11 M. Kimbrel at $16 M.

Don't know. That's a lot for closer. Would like him to resign.

14 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

So far the Angels (through 2021) have spent $38 million on Anthony Rendon and gotten 3.4 fWAR out of him, with a .261/.372/.436 line and 125 wRC+, in what will be 110 out of 222 possible games. It isn't the worst value possible, but not great - especially considering that he'll only have played half the possible games by season's end.

So $2.5 M per home run is not good. Right?

3 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Ok.  Your opinion was he broke out at age 27, despite that he was top 5 in MVP at age 24.  Your opinion is that he cashed in on a career year, when he averaged a 5.7 WAR the 4 years prior to free agency.  Your opinion is Arte’s ego won’t allow them to sell at the deadline, when that is based on nothing other than they didn’t sell Iglesias, yet they sold two other guys including a pitcher that had been with the team for 7 years, oh and Arte’s ego sent money to the Yankees to trade Heaney.  The narrative, yours and others, about Arte signing Albert is bullshit, but whatever.  Dipoto absolutely took credit for it at the time.  Read the ESPN article after the deal went through and you will read all the hoops Dipoto went through and how he started talking about it much earlier than the winter meetings.  If I am not mistaken, in that article Dipoto also talked about approaching Arte with the idea for Albert, but I could be misremembering.  So yea, like I said, narratives.  Oh and I am not waving a flag for Arte, he’s obviously made mistakes and could lead the team in a different direction.

I think this is a really interesting dialogue. Heaney was getting in the way of the kids - Detmers, Barria, Suarez, Sandoval and Rodriguez - and was expendable based on both performance and contract. The team got better by trading the "7 year" pitcher. So regardless of being sellers or buyers trading Heaney made sense.  I think this would be your opinion/narrative also?

Trading the Iglesias Brothers and Cobb would not have made the team better this year. They could have been traded, maybe not Cobb because of the injury, but it would have signaled giving up on the season as was reported in the media. Keeping them was a decision made by the FO or by ownership. We don't know.

Why do you think the Iglesias Brothers were not traded? Was it a Minasian call? Was it an Arte edict? What is your narrative/opinion?

37 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

I have lots of opinions.  Mostly about stuff I know.  Not some made up narrative. 

Really? You are ridiculous. You continue to use "narrative" as if it is a bad thing. Don't you understand a narrative is an opinion? To you, a "narrative" is an opinion you don't agree with or understand.

And my opinion is fact based if you choose to look at Rendon's numbers. He's not a Hall of Famer. He is a really good player who cashed in following a career year. Happens all the time.

So again, my opinion (feel free to insert "narrative") is Arte signed Rendon to a long term contract after a career year and I think the contract will be universally regarded as a mistake - similar to the Pujols and Hamilton contracts but obviously not as bad.

I hope I am wrong because I want this team to thrive. However, I believe Arte has and still is hurting this process with his inability to allow the FO to do what they need to do.

You can wave the flag for Arte if you want. It's your opinion/narrative but agree to disagree.

16 minutes ago, mmc said:

I’d still get rid of Mayfield and let Stefanic, Rengifo, and maybe even Ward battle it out for 3B or 2B with Fletcher moving to 3B

I agree. Let's see what we have with the younger guys. They have options moving into next year but it's time to see what they have. I am most intrigued by Stefanic. 

5 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Yea I mean if fans say it I guess it’s got to be true. 

What does that mean? This is a fans message board. Every opinion expressed here is from a fan. They are opinions.

Do you have an opinion on Rendon's contract? You know, as a fan?

How about the Pujols contract? How about the Hamilton contract?

33 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Sure you go with that.  

Ok. Agree to disagree.

I believe Rendon's contract will go down as another in the litany of bad contracts Arte Moreno has pushed on his GM's. The Angels still owe him $191 M after this year. 

Arte's inability to stay out of the way continues to hurt the team not only with these bad, long term contracts but with our yearly decision to not sell at the trade deadline when we should. That's all about Arte and his inability to admit defeat. His ego and how it hurt this team will be his legacy.

51 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Read on MLB that Marsh is hurt. Anyone have any info?

He dove for a ball last night and, at the time, there was concern he jammed his left shoulder. He stayed in the game.

Maybe it has to do with that play?

2 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

They paid the going rate for a great 3rd baseman.  It is dumb to blame Arte for a 31 year old needing surgery.  

I am blaming Arte because because he threw the $250 M at Rendon after he lost out to the Yankees with Cole. I said it then and I still believe it.

Rendon will not age well compared to the other elite 3rd basemen. He doesn't have the same makeup. He's a really nice player, never on a hall of fame track. Broke out at 27, had three elite years, cashed in.

We have an absolutely brutal owner. He is Jerry Jones with an extreme case of yacht envy.

This fucking guy continues to insert his ego over the the plans of his General Managers and it cripples the team.

With Rendon, the Yankees and Gerrit Cole had just pimped him so he throws crazy money at Rendon to satisfy his ego. It was an overpay from the start. Now Rendon is under contract for $191 M over the next 5 years. He only played 58 games this year which is about $484,000 per game. I think Rendon is a solid dude but I don't think he is going to age well and that $191 M will stop the team from making other moves.

24 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

We already have 15 pitchers on the roster right now so Packy won't be replacing our 5th outfielder. We would be moving a pitcher down or to the IL. Cobb to the IL Retro?

The rules permit up to 5 taxi squad players this year on road trips so that is also a possibility but doesn't make a lot of sense.

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

I'm disquieted by all the synonyms for "worried."

I agree. It is disturbing and makes me feel anxious.

13 hours ago, Pheenom07 said:

I’d throw someone like Canning in with some A-ball prospects (top 10)  like to unload all or part of Uptons salary if it meant bringing in a TOR.  

Upton has a no trade clause. I don't see him going anywhere.

Canning has diminished trade value right now. He was demoted to AAA. Had one start with SLC, gave up 6 runs in 2 innings and moved to the IL 3 weeks ago with a lower back strain.

Yeah, he has really fast hands. It looks like he would benefit from adjusting his setup and moving his hands and the knob of the bat back toward the catcher.