AngelsFanSince86

I mean its 'duh' that he should be ranked there, but I wouldn't put it past MLB network to not rank him 1st seeing as how they did this last year: http://www.angelswin-forum.com/forums/topic/18451-mlb-network-ranks-trout-second-best-cf/?hl=+2015%20+projections

Thank you for filling me in. I've been following this thread and wanted to comment, but needed to get some sleep last night so had to forego reading the majority of this last page. Anyways, I see what you're saying, but I mostly disagree. The reality is we didn't have enough currency to fill all the holes we have or will have after next year. Long term it is much easier to fill LF than it is to fill SS. I agree that it makes much more sense to do what they did if they had planned on spending in FA to fill LF. However, we still can't say for sure that LF won't be filled with a better option than is currently on the roster (which I see you have acknowledged). I'll admit I was a bit upset after Arte made those comments, but have decided to wait until I make my judgement. In terms of competing, it was best to patch SS now when the opportunity came up rather than wait and have no solution. There is literally no option for SS for years. Whether the plan is to go for a LF now or wait until 2018, they would need a SS. Regardless of what the plan is it makes sense to get Simmons. Its either you have a pitcher who MAY be an ace or a SS who is one of the best in the game. Simmons has just as good of a chance of realizing the offensive upside he showed in his first full year as Newcomb does at becoming an ace. Maybe even more given that Simmons has done it at the professional level already and is about to enter his physical prime. The only thing is that Simmons floor is that he's the best defensive player in the league and on pace to be one of the best defensive players ever. I assume whatever the plan is, it is to be competitive as possible sometime during the 5 year span that Trout is locked down. What I see is that Eppler decided that Simmons is only a couple years older than Newcomb. The Angels have a solid amount of young pitching and nothing in the foreseeable future for SS. He decided that regardless of what happens, it was more valuable to have Simmons than to have Newcomb/Ellis. I mean really Ellis keeps getting talked about because he was our #2 prospect, but that means very little given the weak farm system. In a better farm he would be somewhat of an afterthought. So basically, I don't see what the fuss is. Yes, I think they should fill the big hole in LF, but I don't see how that has any bearing on the Simmons trade. If they used what they had to fill LF then they would still need to fill SS next year and would have no options. If you think what we have in LF is bad just imagine Featherstone as the starting SS. The reason they didn't stand pat was because they decided having Simmons was more valuable than having Newcomb and Ellis. Period. For now AND the future.

I don't have time to read the last 4 or 5 responses, but I've read most of this thread and one thing that bugs me is a couple people have acted like the value of Simmons is only the difference between he and Aybar, but Newcombs value is standalone. Its either one way or the other. Pitching is valuable, but the Angels have a lot of pitching. Not saying they have Mets level depth, but they have the depth to make them at the very least an average staff for years to come. SS is one position it is hard to come by talent. Rarely does a SS of Simmons caliber hit FA below 30 because teams will lock them up and even more rarely does one come up for trade. This was a move that looked toward the future. I mean you guys do realize Simmons will be with this team 2018 and beyond right?? I keep hearing, "this was a shortsighted move thinking about now by trading away the future for 2018 and beyond". So who is going to be our SS for 2018 or beyond if not Simmons? Could we draft one? Sure. We could also draft another pitcher though. The thing is pitchers are significantly easier to come by via trade or FA than a solid SS is. If Simmons averages 3.0 dWAR over the next 5 years (He's averaged a little over 4.2 in his 3 full seasons so thats accounting for possible decline), he will already be in the top 10 all time for dWAR. According to fangraphs, if you take Ozzie Smith and Simmons age 23-25 seasons (ignoring Simmons age 22 season because he only played 49 games and Smith played his first season which was a full season at age 23), Smith had a 64.9 defensive value (takes DRS and UZR into account) and Simmons was worth 77.5. Not saying he will be able to continue the pace that Smith held up, but he's been better and has also been much better with the bat. We have a special player as our SS for years to come. If he comes around with the bat while keeping up the defense we are talking hall of fame caliber player.

Mixed and I don't think its a cop out. Too soon to see how Eppler will fair with drafting, international presence, etc. And too soon to be pessimistic about the team. I have been pretty pessimistic at times this offseason because of the lack of moves given the available players, but I also admit there is plenty of time left and plenty of those players still available. Come ST I will no longer have mixed feelings.

I had looked it up after you posted this and found the first 2 links I looked at backed up what you are saying, but then I read an mlb article today saying Griffey and Piazza chose what cap they are wearing. Did this recently change or is it a misconception that they don't get to pick?

I think most of the discussion is just about the fit of the player. I doubt they sign anyone else for LF, but doesn't mean I can't debate whether or not a given player would be a good decision in the off chance they actually sign someone.

Mike Piazza career fWAR and bWAR, respectively: 62.5, 59.4 Jim Edmonds career fWAR and bWAR, respectively: 64.5, 60.3 Piazza .759 postseason OPS with no WS Edmonds .874 postseason OPS with WS ring Edmonds made one of the most memorable catches in baseball history. Just saying...

Meh. According to dWAR, DRS, UZR, etc. Parra has been a solid defender most of his career, but nothing elite outside of 2013 where he got most of his WAR value from his defense and hitting twice as many doubles as he ever has in any other year. The past two seasons he rates as a below average defender and a below average player. He had a 3 year stretch where he was a solid player (2-3 WAR) for two years with that one above average year mixed in. The problem with having one stand out year based on defense is that its usually tied to some spectacular plays that were made. Some players always make those plays. Sometimes players just have one season they go all out and put their body on the line play after play. That might have been one of those seasons he will never come close to repeating. (As an aside I feel the same way about Kole, which is why I wouldn't have minded him moving to LF if Heyward was signed. He laid himself out over and over and over again and I'm not sure how sustainable that is. A player can only do that so many times. Hes a good defender either way, just not sure he will consistently be the defender we saw last year.) Anyways, I just don't see the value in Parra. He has declined from David Freese level value. Meaning that his upside isn't very enticing. Gentry is actually a similar player with similar upside, but a better track record and more speed. He has been a better defender than Parra throughout his career.

I'm not saying Hamiltons salary doesn't factor in. It is a sunk cost in terms of LF. It is relevant when talking about the team salary as a whole, but not as an individual position. What you are saying is that it would be fine to spend $15-20 million AAV on some other position like 2B or 3B (if there was an adequate player available) because there isn't another bloated contract in that position. Looking at it your way, the Hamilton contract relates only to LF when in reality it relates to the whole team. Arte being reluctant to spend effects every position, not just LF. It has more to do with the luxury tax. I HIGHLY doubt he's sitting there saying, "well I would be down to go over the luxury tax, but I just can't justify spending $35-40 million on one position." He is either willing to spend the money or not and it has nothing to do with the position. As an aside, I'm glad he got rid of Hamilton. I've never booed a single player wearing an Angels uniform, but he would have been the first if they kept him. I wouldn't be able to stand having such a low life on the team and likely would have gone to 15-20 less games a season until he was gone.

Garrett Anderson and David Eckstein got votes. Awesome.

Even trhough that is a dumb way to look at it, its still better to pay $45+ million for LF and actually get production than to pay $30 million and get none.

Actually they did get lucky. Pitchers Ramon Ortiz, Jarrod Washburn, Percival, Ben Weber and then position players Spiezio, Kennedy, Eckstein, Anderson and Fulmer ALL had their best years of their careers that year. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Its like the opposite of what happened last year. Also, Donnelly had the 2nd best year of his career. He and K-Rod were both in their first season and were killing it. Specifically K-rod. Many of the other major contributors had a top 2 or 3 season in terms of their career. Literally everyone was playing their best. It was a team of destiny. If you look at some of the guys who did really well for them, especially pitchers, 2002 was their only good season. Not saying that happened because of good leadership or whatever, but for whatever reason everything clicked for them that year. They were good, but they were playing way over their heads.

Only 2 of the top 5 teams in terms of OBP made it to the playoffs. 5 of the playoff teams were from 11-21, Royals being 11th. In 2014 Giants were 18th in OBP, although 7 of the top 10 teams made the playoffs. 8 of the top 10 in 2013, Boston being 1st. 5 of 10 in 2012, Giants being 8th. 5 of 10 in 2011, the Cards being 3rd. Take what you will from this. I wasn't trying to prove a point, but was just curious so I looked it up and shared results. It doesn't take into account that the AL typically has higher OBP and that the Rockies skew results by always being top 10 in OBP because of their park. But if you take this at face value it basically says OBP is important, but not necessary. You must at least be average at getting on base if you want to be successful. But thats pretty true about every part of the game.

I like Giavotella. More so as a person than as a ball player. My opinion is basically what tdawg said. .270/.320 is solid if you have any resemblance of pop. Gia has none. His clutch hits are a huuuge stretch to say he will replicate. Nobody hates gia. Everyone loved him last year because he was the best available option, came up in the clutch, and was just fun to cheer for. That time is over. It's clear he's a replacement level player. He should be replaced by someone who is worth more than 1 WAR even after all those clutch hits

You could literally insert Giavotellas name in that first paragraph.

That's basically how I feel. I understand that moving Escobar to 2B isn't preferable, but I still feel he's at worst as bad as gia with the glove and will be better offensively.

He actually has thrown more than they had by a couple hundred innings which is why I'd be surprised if he lays long without injury. He could end up being durable though

Yes. Because the options for free agents suck. And Cowart and kubitza are better players than gia. The options we have to battle it out for 3B are significantly better than what we had battling for 2B last season

If you are going to stick to that frame of mind after its been explained to you multiple times why people say that, could you at least come back with an argument that takes what has been said into account? This isn't like picking which free agent to sign. Neither player has been given enough of a shot to know what they are capable of at the mlb level. Both have potential. If we could pick one then there would be no question as to who our starting 3B would be and that is a reality we don't live in. Saying it's lazy to not pick one is like saying it's lazy to not know exactly what numbers Trout will pay next year. Nobody knows. That scenario still needs to play itself out. Now, considering what I just said, why do you feel like people should pick one or the other?

Is not lazy. It's actually been explained over and over again, but here it goes: both guys have upside. Neither is Kris Bryant. I'd love to see Cowart live up to his former hype, but it remains to be seen whether or not last year's AAA resurgence is an aberration or him figuring it out again. Kubitza looks like he could be pretty solid. Average defender and average hitter. Cowart could be above average at both, but is just as likely to be a terrible hitter with an above average glove. So basically, nobody knows. It's lazy to act like you know which one, if either, will be successful. I think we can all agree we'd like to see Cowart hit his potential and take over the spot. But the reality is 3B is the one position we have solid prospects that have a decent chance at actually succeeding at the mlb level and it would be nice to see one of those guys become our everyday 3B. But they still have to battle it out during ST. Thus, for now, it's Cowart/kubitza

It's a solid deal because the issue with maeda will be whether or not he can stay healthy. If he can stay healthy he is likely worth the contract. If not, them is not that much over the course of 8 years

Not bad given the amount. i laughed when i first saw this deal because the guy already has 1500 professional innings under his belt.

Basically what inside pitch said, but to put this back in context we are talking about what was and is our priorities. 3B and C are the only positions the angels have any sort of minor league depth at and that's all that's being pointed out. I know it's been repeated a lot but it's also been in response to people who keep saying they don't understand how 2B could have been the next biggest priority other than LF when the off season began. It's because our minor league depth at C and 3B is better than what we currently have at the major league level at 2B

You know, it's not a bad thing they have 2 guys that look promising as future 3B. Just because neither is a top 100 prospect and sure thing doesn't make it bad. It just means we have a better chance of someone working out. Kubitza has a higher floor, but lower ceiling. Cowart is the opposite. But nobody knows who it will be so for now it's just "kubitza and Cowart"

Well here is why: They have Perez already and if they didn't sign anyone else they had Bandy to fall back on. Both have at least as much upside offensively as Soto and are very solid defensively. Getting a veteran was preferable, but not a top priority. At 3B the Angels have Kubitza and Cowart. Both would be better at 3B then Gia would be at 2B. Once again, it was preferable to add a veteran to let them battle it out during ST and if all else fails stick Escobar there full time. Otherwise, they can ease these guys in and hope one of them takes off while giving Escobar time between 2B and 3B. Now, for Gia he plays terrible defense and makes it hard to swallow the acquisition of a defense first SS when we all know that Simmons' value goes down with Gia at 2B. Even without Simmons 2B was our biggest need next to LF. Personally, I think Gentry/Nava platoon is at least as good as Gia at 2B. Both are better defenders and both have been better hitters throughout their careers. In other words, both positions are still in dire need. The only reason LF is more of a priority is because there are actual and plentiful solid options available to upgrade.