DMVol

"He is reticent about throwing inside, and he has virtually nothing off-speed. Everything is hard and away."

 

This is why he is not in the rotation. We can't have a guy who throws one pitch in one location. How can he expect to keep hitters off-balance if he's not using the WHOLE plate?

It can work in relief (sometimes) but not in the rotation....

Because it was difficult to get decent players, I think the early Angel philosophy was to take veteran guys well past their prime (Ted Kluszewski, Del Rice and others) or guys like Wagner who weren't very coachable and teams were frustrated with, and win quickly....it worked but it didn't lay the foundation for extended success.....much easier to win quickly now, with free agency...think Marlilns in the 90's....

Guess it depends on where we are.

 

But lets assume we did trade him....   Since he started the year with us, there wouldn't be any loss of picks if we signed him in the offseason.   So why not trade him, get some talent, then sign him in the off-season?

 

Angels need to be as creative as possible to get talent into the system.  If they can find a way to work the current CBA, they should.

Not a bad thought at all.....but I guess the concern is that, if you trade him, there is no guarantee you get him back---he might like the team he gets traded to or his value may go up and he may decide to milk the market for every penny, Boras style....signing him, at a reasonable rate, is a guarantee of a solid middle of the rotation guy behind Weaver and Wilson....Hanson hasn't been half bad so that would give us 4 pretty decent starters....and we need them, we have very little on the farm....

It's all about how reasonable he (and his agent) might be....he's not a "must sign" but you'd sure like to wrap him up for a few years at a reasonable rate....as somebody said in this thread, we aren't exactly loaded with options...you'd like to think he'd be inclined to stay for a decent contract.....

I'm not sure that quote was actually Reagan. I'll have to look it up to verify.

Wouldn't have it any other way.....

I like how you have to verify the stat before you believe it. As if Bruin is just lying out of his as to you for no reason.

"Trust but verify"....old Russian proverb quoted by Reagan to Gorbachev.....

Bleacher Report? Not interested. 

Would agree that Bleacher Report is normally like AO on a bad day but there is little in that article to disagree with....at least I can't ....a 10 year deal for Scioscia was crazy, even with his success...no need to go that far, way beyond any industry norm....Pujols and Hamilton were terrible signings, before the ink was dry..."win now" can't justify half a billion dollars in bad long term investments...not sure CJ was that bad, would probably disagree there...

agree, so the difference in their winning the division was their improvement at teh plate.

 

(and, yes, i verified the fact before i posted it)

Hard to make the playoffs unless you're pretty good at both...you can get by sometimes with mediocre in one and really good in the other....in runs scored for all of 2012, the A's were mediocre (8th) so they must have been beyond putrid in the first half if they were tops in the league in the 2nd half and still finished 8th....but, pitching was very, very good from the jump....I'd always rather have the pitching to start with than the other way around....

They won the division because they started to hit. 

 

Pre- ASB = last in runs scored

Post-ASB = 1st in runs scored

Maybe so (haven't verified that stat) but their pitching was good from start to finish....the rotation and the pen were solid...

Oakland was 13 games out in June last year and won the division. We can do it!!

Pitching, pitching, pitching....always helps to have it...they did last year (2nd in the league in ERA), we don't this year...

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"....Bluto, Animal House....

lol, his OPS coming into today's game is .682, the exact same number as last year's with the Angels.

And his BA and OBP have now settled in to the territory he's been in for the last two years....a little bit of power, terrible in all other categories.....he is what he is, except for Toronto in 2010....

"War:  What is it good for?  Absolutely nothing...say it again..."

Edwin Star 1969

really a shame Madson can't get healthy.  He would be a perfect trade piece to a contender at the deadline.

+1....he would be the most logical trade piece if we continue to struggle....re-signing him, with Boras involved, would be unlikely (or at best difficult, to say the least).....relievers generally get a good return at the deadline....but, he can't get us anything from the DL....

I would not be in a hurry to trade Vargas, unless I thought he was focused on being a free agent...he's a California guy and Boras isn't involved so I'd consider re-signing during the season...I know that's not prefered but why not? We aren't going anywhere, he's a good middle of the rotation guy and if he wants to sign a reasonable deal, I'd do it....

Blanton was the big miss....a miss that we'll pay for by eating his contract at some point.....Vargas was a good deal....KMo was likely gone after this year and we needed starting pitching badly, moreso than a 1B/DH......Burnett and Madsen were injury risks that haven't panned out so the overall C+ is probably pretty fair....

The Angels did miss the playoffs in 2006. Both Saunders and Weaver got to pitch because Jeff was traded and Colon went back to the DL.

Yes, we did miss the playoffs, hence my original point....not sure what you mean beyond that though??....I do remember Colon went back on the DL but Jeff wasn't traded for a couple more starts and Jered made at least one (maybe 2) starts at SLC....Again, I am still a Scioscia guy, not intending to rag on him for everything, as some do here....I just thought the whole Jered/Jeff deal was the worst example of one of Scioscia's failings---he does stick with veteran guys too long at times....not all on him, the front office has a lot to do with it also....

They had a full rotation and bullpen, a young pitcher needs to pitch not sit on a bench waiting for an inning here and there. Jered got in his time in Salt Lake then was promoted back into the rotation when there was a spot. It had nothing to do with veteran loyalty as much as trying to get value out of the roster they were paying for.

You are totally missing the point.....it may have kept Jered "warm" to pitch at SLC but what if we had lost the pennant the couple of games that he would have started with the Angels, when we instead ran an ineffective Jeff out to the mound...."trying to get value of the roster they were paying for" wouldn't have excused losing the pennant while your best starter was staying warm at SLC....

Jered was sent down because he had options and Colon had come off the DL. The Angels bullpen was the best it ever was so there was no place to hide Jeff. If you guys recall the Angels traded Jeff but not until Jered was not in the clubhouse sparing the brothers the embarrassment.

If not a pitcher then an everyday player needed to go down....not a young pitcher who was unhittable, to spare the feelings of his brother and a washed up (at least before he went to his pharmacist) Colon....the couple of starts Jered lost could have cost us the pennant in a close race...no excuse for it....and I am not for firing Scioscia, I appreciate his body of work....but I can't forgive that one...

Jeff Weaver

No question that he is overly loyal to veterans but nothing compares to the Jeff Weaver mess....sent Jered down to Salt Lake when he was the best starter we had....all of the others pale in comparison IMO.....

Pitching, pitching, pitching....always pitching...

Only problem is that, when we missed out on Fujikawa, we signed Madsen....not sure that was a better move....

....Considering the fact we pay him $15 million per year he looks like a bargain compared to some of the names above.

I'm not excusing his poor performance but I guess what I'm trying to say is it is not quite as bad as it appears....

Some truth to that....but most of those guys have/were pretty dominant pitchers at various times in their careers....CJ was good in Texas but never as good as most of the guys on your list...on the whole as an Angel, he has been mediocre...

seriously though.  let's not lose sight of the fact that he's been fairly solid this year.  Granted, he doesn't get deep into games very often, but this was by far his worst start of the season. 

Before today, he's had one start where he didn't go at least six innings, and another start where he gave up more than three runs.  (4er in 6ip)

He's not a #1 or #2.  He keeps the team in the game.  He nibbles around the zone, but generally limits damage.  Once in awhile he has a really bad start and once in awhile a really good one.  Net result is pretty solid.  Good amount of ks.  Too many walks.  Not too many hits or hrs. 

 

His ERA is almost 4.00, which is about where it was last year (non-small sample size).....you don't pay $75 million for a #4 or 5 starter....

We signed the wrong Joe. Should have picked up Saunders for less $$.

His 5.64 ERA isn't much better than Blanton's....

How much are the Angels paying him this year?

3.5 million guaranteed.....the rest is roster, performance incentives....

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/angels-to-sign-ryan-madson.html