ispy45

Each day the price goes down. The agents are screwing the players because the players need a back bone like Weaver had.

and Street

We are waiting to see if Span is healthy.

TEX and HOU are going to be improved significantly on paper compared to last year. 

Agreed, TEX will have a full  year of Hammels and Darvish and Houston has  Ken Giles

 

Jerry Crasnick â€@jcrasnick  25m25 minutes ago

Scott Boras has told interested teams Denard Span will be available for workouts after New Year to show he's healthy.

 

 

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I'm ok waiting to see if he is healthy.

According to most reports, teams are only willing to eat 5 million of CJ's 20 million contract. 

Whoops I was thinking Fowler,Gordon, Cespedes, Upton

Bet Span will sign before the big four OF.

or how much more we could spend in other areas.  People are advocating for us to bring back Howie.  Personally, I don't think it's a great idea, but we could get both Span and Kendrick for about 5 mil more this year than the price of Gordon, and the term would likely be less. Or we could pursue a trade of Wilson and get a 2bman back in return while saving a few million.  

Finally, some people are seeing the light on Span. Span is willing to sign for less years to prove he is healthy. Span could make bank if he proves he is healthy becomes a free agent within the next two years. At the end of 2017, both Yunel and Span come off the books, our only two main contracts will be Albert at 25 mil and Trout at 33.5 million. We will have spending money  for these 2018 free agents

• Bryce Harper
• David Price
• Jason Heyward
• Josh Donaldson
• Clayton Kershaw
• Dallas Keuchel
• Jose Fernandez
• Matt Harvey
• Andrew McCutchen
• Adam Jones
• Manny Machado
• Michael Brantley
• Craig Kimbrel
• Zach Britton
• Trevor Rosenthal
• Andrew Miller
• Jeurys Familia
• Glen Perkins
• Kelvin Herrera
• A.J. Ramos
• Carter Capps
• David Robertson
• Adam Wainright
• Garret Richards
• Shelby Miller
• Nelson Cruz
• Hunter Pence
• Adrian Gonzalez
• A.J. Pollock
• Charlie Blackmon
• Dee Gordon
• Brian Dozer
• Yasmani Grandal
• Derek Norris
• Joe Mauer
• Victor Martinez

Too many factors have to go right in order to trade Wilson. First, we have to find a team that will eat more than 5 million of his 20 million contract. Second Wilson has to ok the trade. 

Why is Span missing? If he proves he is healthy, he is exactly what we need.

He seems to always be hurt. Already have several guys in our lineup with zero power, don't want to add another. Scioscia managed teams don't run anymore so I think his speed would go to waste. No thanks. 

We don't need power. We need a guy who gets on base, bats left, and steal bases. 

I like Denard Span on a 2-3 year deal with a player option or a one year deal to prove he is healthy. He would be the perfect lead off. He would be cheap. Last year he was injured. 

He bats left, has speed, steals bases, gets on base, has no qualfying offer.  The perfect lead off hitter. This guy is beast against right handed pitching.

2014 BA .302  184 hits 620 AB 39  2B 31SB

2015 BA .301  74 hits   246 AB  17 2B 7SB

Mike Trout has a full no trade clause. Pointless thread..

You do realize CJ was pitching hurt last season.

You do realize CJ has always pitched better after surgery.

You do realize most of our depth is unproven or has struggled last season.

You do realize trading CJ before ST isn't a great idea.

You do realize I have a turkey in the oven.

The perfect reply.

Doc, I really like that route. I'd also like to make an effort for Hwang like some here have mentioned.

As for Wilson, I think he would have more value than a cost-controlled RP. I myself have suggested trading him, but those scenarios would be in packages for a 2nd or 3rd baseman. I would think Wilson to Boston can make a lot of sense because they would get a 2-3 rotation starter at a discount price (10 mil). I think he could start a convo for Holt, and of course you would have to throw in some cost-controlled young players to offset the fact that Wilson has only 1 year. But if you can materialize Wilson + Bedrosian + Giovotella for Holt then it would be great.

 

The thing with CJ is this.  

 

Are you going to sign him after this season.  Probably not.

 

Will you trade him midseason?  Maybe.  And really the only way you would trade him is if he is doing poorly, which is where he would be right now.  If he is doing well, you keep him for the run since he does have experience. 

 

So where would he have more value.  Now, when a team that trades for him could recoup a draft pick if they give him a QO.  Or later in the season, if he's floundering.  Because I really don't think we will trade him if he is doing well.  

 

So IMO.  Your options are, trade him now, save some salary, and possibly get something in return.  Gamble, and hope he recovers from the surgery, and you will have a postseason starter.  Or wait, and find out you have to pay most of his salary, while costing you games, and get little in return.  

Dochalo, on 25 Nov 2015 - 8:10 PM, said:

We were 5th in the AL in starters IP and 11th in relievers IP.

Wilson wasn't exactly an innings beast either.

I've never really understood the importance of sacrificing quality for quantity relative to innings pitched.

Avg pen era is lower than starter ERA and the numbers get worse for the pitcher the more times a batter sees them.

OPS+ splits for times through the order vs SP

1st 97

2nd 98

3rd 110

4th 115

vs RP

1st 96

Would you rather have a guy avg 6 innings with a 3.5 era or 7 innings with a 4.0 era?

Remember when Santiago was asked to pitch to contact and get deeper in the games last year? He ended up with an era of 5.2, got demoted to the pen, and then sent to the minors.

He came back, made 17 starts averaging about 5 innings per with a 3.57 era.

Give us the best you got for 5 or 6.

Spend an extra 5mil on the pen and give your starters that kind of freedom. If they can't get through the order a 3rd time, don't force it. It's also cheaper to have someone like hector go 5ip and a 5mil/yr pen arm go 2ip for the total of a 3.4 era than it is to pay Jordan Zimmerman 22mil per season to go 7ip with the same era.

You are aware we don't have a deep bullpen right? We can't have our closer and setup man going three days in a row. This isn't a video game. Remember, those two games where we almost swept the Astros? Those two games we over used our bullpen. Street pitched three days in a row.

Before he got hurt, CJ was one of our top three pitchers. With CJ, we were winning games and resting our bullpen.

We are not going win many ball games if most of our pitchers are going 5 innings. It's one of the main reasons we on that losing streak after the all-star game. Because, our pitchers went below 6 innings, our bull pen was exhausted at the end of the season against Texas.

After the All Star break, Hector went 4 of 15 games in going 6 inning or more. Our bullpen was being used so much we had to bring in AA guys in to rest our pen.

I don't understand why so many want to trade CJ. Trading CJ now when his value is currently low, exposes our limited bullpen,and If he preforms well

we are giving away Draft Pick.  You are aware this is contract year right? 

Having pitchers go at least 6 innings is a key to success, allows the team to rest the pen, and it's one of the reason why the Royals traded for Cueto.

We are not trading Wilson.  Wilson's value is too low. Plus, we need Wilson. Our rotation is full  of 5 or 6 innings pitchers. Our Bullpen will be worn out like last year.

So you think they should prioritize acquiring a couple inning eater-types?

yes, we need one guy. Weaver is no longer an option. 

I've read the opposite about Murphy that he is an avg. third baseman but a below avg second baseman.

 Played 42 games at 3B had 6 errors

 played 69 games at  2B had 6 errors

It's the same rotation we have now, minus Richards, so, not much different from where we already stand.

Right and our bullpen was overused and tired. A club needs three legit pitchers that can go 6 or more innings. We currently have only Richards and Wilson. Our bullpen is not that deep to have alternate closers.

Good post Scotty.

The Angels should be able to solve their problems this winter if they are willing to spend. The easiest fix is left field. My preference is Alex Gordon.

Second base can also be upgraded easily. If you can't get Zobrist, get Howie or Murphy.

Trade Santiago for Prado.

Sign Zimmerman, Cueto, or Greinke.

Sick lineup:

Prado

Gordon

Trout

Pujols

Calhoun

Cron

Kendrick

Aybar

Catcher

Murphy isn't an upgrade defensely.

Sign Aoki, Gordon, Murphy - or bigger names if Arte so desired.

Trade Calhoun for Wheeler or Matz.

Trade Richards for Betts.

Still can trade some SP for bullpen/bench help, and you'd still be close to even money if you wanted to go over for another FA/trade.

The team got younger, cheaper, more flexible, and I can't see why it wouldn't be at least competitive.

Rotation (not in order)

Weaver, Wilson, Santiago, Shoemaker, Wheeler/Matz, Skaggs, Tropeano, Newcomb

Bullpen: Smith, Street, all the other guys.

Line-up:

Betts 2B

Gordon LF

Trout CF

Pujols 1B

Murphy 3B

Cron DH

Aybar SS

Perez C

Aoki RF

Added more speed, left handed hitting, line-up feels more balanced. I feel like it extends the 'lifespan' of the team over the Trout period. Calhoun and Aoki had some OPS+ last year whaaaat.

And you still could deal from SP depth, Cron, Gia/Kubitza/Cowart, and sign a bullpen piece if needed.

What do you all think Richards, Heaney, Calhoun, or Newcomb would fetch in a trade? From the Cubs? Royals? Someone may be able to take the concept and make it even better than I could.

This Rotation only has only 1 pitcher that can go 6 or more innings. Our Bullpen will be exhausted and lit up. Murphy sucks at 3B,

IMO, it is ridiculous to sign Zobrist for around 4/76 when you can get Murphy for around 4/48.  It makes more sense to sign Murphy.

 

If the Angel want the homerun/rbi guy, they could do:

 

Upton for LF

Murphy for 2B

Trade for 3B

Sign a starter to make up for who is traded for 3B

Sign a relief pitcher

 

Or they could go a more inexpensive way

 

Rasmus for LF

Murphy for 2B

Trade for 3B

Sign a starter to make up for who is traded for 3B

Sign a relief pitcher

Murphy's defense is a liability.  Might as well  keep Giavotella. We need a defensive upgrade at second base badly.Not so much offense upgrade. It's why Sosh keeps subing Featherson , Green and Jackson in the late innings. 

CJ went 15 of 21 games  before July 29th going at least 6 innings. 7 of 21 games going 7 innings or more.

Richards  went 16 of 21 games in going 6 innings.

 Richards went 9 of 21 games in going 7 or more before July 30.

=Baseball reference click game logs

We need Wilson. He's 1 of 2  pitchers that can go at least 7 innings regularly. Trading him would be  futile. It would tax our bullpen.  We need at least  three starters that can reset the bullpen.

He had 12 errors all season but was:

 

.264 .316 OBP .806 OPS  in 2 outs W/RISP in 44 games

.365 .400 OBP .819 OPS  in late and close in 63 games

.359 .394 OBP .872 OPS  in high leverage in 73 games

 

Not saying its necessarily sustainable or repeatable going forward but he was clutch in more games than the ones he F'd up in. 

You are correct. I only looked at 2 w/RISP and compared games instead of AB.