Rally Gorilla

I think this is part of the reasoning, I don't know. But wouldn't a team make a serious effort to extend a guy if they thought it was going to be worth it? I think the Astros would rather avoid paying a guy huge money well past his prime, and pick up a draft pick.

Ok, please enlighten me.

Right. So, they weren't willing to take the risk of giving him the huge contract. They just played it safe and will take the pick.

You mean your point about Cole being potentially more impactful that Matt Thais next season? I didn't see the OP making that argument. I'm not making that argument. A huge $$$ pitcher in his prime is very likely to have more impact than a guy coming off a so-so rookie season.

Does anyone else find it interesting that the Astros only offered Cole a qualifying offer he was sure to refuse? Unless they have a real surprise up their sleeves, they are just going to sit back and let someone else take the risk....and pick up a draft pick outa the deal.

That's just it though. Cole has started a high number of games his entire career (if you throw out his rookie season) and that still comes out to something less than 20% of the season. He's in his prime now, but someone is going to pay him huge money for seven or eight more seasons....and it would be really unusual for him to remain effective and pitch that many games a year as he ages. And throwing an average of 170 innings per season for seven straight years could raise concern by itself, that's a lot of miles on the elbow.

This!

After their first ten years of losing, they did win the AL West a few times and even some ALDS. After their more recent decade of futility, they hired Dipto instead of using a trained monkey. That was their downfall.

They stocked up on very high draft picks for so long.....through a combination of ineptness and intentional tanking.... They get so much credit for being smart, but a trained monkey could put together great teams with that kind of equity. It's all got to come to an end somewhere and I think we're starting to see the beginning of the end. I hope so. Tankers suck.

Houston Astros. A team that was just lousy for four season in a row (2007-2010), then decided to intentionally tank hard for four more seasons (2011-2014, average 100+ losses). And now they are being held up as geniuses because they are winning? Even f'ing Jerry Dipoto could win 100 games if he had eight straight years of very high draft picks. I hope the MLB can figure out more effective ways to discourage tanking. It's no fun watching 100+ loss tankers stink it up for years and it's no fun seeing those same cheats dominate for three or four season until they have exhausted their ill gotten gains.

Letting a guy out of his contract because he's a completely useless self-destructive mess and then not spending a dime to make up for the mistake. Yeah, there's your proof.

Not me! If I though Arte would be ok paying for Cole, adding other quality position players and pitchers, paying the young guys as needed, and eating contracts that went bad......I'd be all for signing Cole! But that is not how Arte runs his business. He has said it himself in interviews. To expect otherwise from him would be unrealistic.

I love the look on Sosh's face.

I cry foul! I specifically said the 3rd guy can't be called Blanton!

Realism is good. For example, I think expecting one guy to take a rotation from worst in the MLB to a contender is unrealistic. As is ignoring that we'll be paying that same guy huge money to pitch (or not pitch) through his age 37 season.

Ok, Lack of quality and effective depth..... fixed now?

Wheeler and Ordorizzi are crappy pitchers and no other FA pitcher in the MLB could be a solid back-of-the-rotation guy to help with our lack of depth. Our only salvation is to give huge $$$ to Cole and keep paying him that until he's 37. He alone will make up for a rotation that was last in the MLB last season. oh wait...

Signing Cole might make sense for a team that already has a strong rotation and they are looking to take it to that next level. That same team better have an owner that is willing to eat big contracts to keep the team in contention. We have neither of those, so I think Cole would be a bad move for the team.

By "spread the risk of injury around," I mean that we would not be banking the teams next seven/eight years on one pitcher's elbow. If Wheeler or Odorizzi or some back-of-the-rotation guy goes down, we would still have some depth so we don't repeat last year's debacle. And if all three of them suffer catastrophic career ending injuries (which is much less likely than one guy suffering a career ending injury)....the grief only lasts four years or less instead of seven or eight years. Again, our rotation was the worst in the MLB last season. A big part of that is we had to run out AAA+ (or sometimes just AAA) players due to a lack of depth to cover injuries. Cole, by himself, doesn't solve that problem. I wasn't speaking of strictly just Adell and Marsh as young guys who we will need to pay at some point. We're in trouble if that is the only talent we get out of the farm in the next seven years. Also, some are projecting that Cole is going to get an eight year deal...meaning we could still be financially hamstrung just those guys hit FA. I am VERY upset that we have pissed away so much of the Supernaturals career already. As far as impact, I think adding three SP at reasonable terms for four years is going to have a much greater positive impact on our team than signing one guy to HUGE money that runs for well past his expected prime. I'm not forgetting Pujols is coming off the books in 2 years. Are you forgetting that his signing is a big part of the reason we were a .444 team in 2019? Paying players into their late 30's based on their performance in their prime is a desperation move that backfires more often than not. At least Albert is a position player. You really feel ok tying the team's future to a pitcher entering his 30's? A pitcher than relies on a 97 mph fastball to succeed? A pitcher that threw up some serious red flags about his maturity and judgement after game seven? I said signing Wheeler, Odorizzi, Moustakas and a third lower priced SP would have more impact that signing Cole. That's because our team's rotation is a mess. We need depth more than anything. If we already had a top flight rotation, then adding Cole would be about the only way to make an impact. But we don't. Again, we need to add as much quality depth as we can and then hope some guys we already bounce back seasons or step up to the next level....guys like Ohtani and Canning. If you keep misinterpreting the points I am making, then I don't really know what to say.

How about Wheeler, Odorizzi, Moustakas and some unspecified back-of-the-roation SP for some injury insurance? The unspecified guy cannot be named Blanton. That would: 1) Have more impact than Cole. He's a great pitcher in his prime right now. But that alone isn't going to move the rotation from last place in the MLB to a rotation that can keep us in contention. 2) Spread the risk of injury around. 3) Leave room for other smaller moves. 4) As this group comes off the books, we would have room to keep our youngsters who pan out and need to get paid. 5) Not completely handcuff the team financially for seven or eight more seasons. Wasting Trout's prime years makes me cry.

Come on now. You know what I mean. We've been playing the "buy cheap and see what sticks" game in several areas while we waited for big contracts to come off the books. Do you want more Blantons?

Any solid SP without a contract that will hamstring the team for the next seven or eight years.

Even adding a true ace like Cole is not going to be enough to solidify our rotation. It was literally the worst in the MLB last season. And I disagree that he is likely to be a good role model/mentor, based on the lack of judgement, maturity and character that he showed after game seven. For the same reasons, I am concerned that he has what it takes to be dominant as he ages and his 97 MPH fastball starts to slow down.

I would have no objection if the Angels decided to go crazy on spending like the Dodgers have done in the recent past. The Dodgers signed just about everyone they could, and then ate lots of contracts that didn't work out and then kept signing more players. But, Arte has shown over and over that he will not keep spending to make up for contracts gone bad. So, if Cole gets hurt or just doesn't age well, we could be looking at another long period of being handcuffed when it comes to filling other team needs and more extended periods of not making the playoffs. I'd rather see some other team take the risk on Cole and the Angels use the resources to sign two or three legit starters to shorter contracts and still have money to sign solid position players as needed.

Our starting pitching is such a dumpster fire (combined WAR of -6.8, worst in MLB), and Heaney was part of the problem with another injury plagued season (95 IP last year and an under 100 IP average of his five year career). But, when he did pitch, he put up a +1 WAR season, so he does have the ability to keep us in games when healthy. As others have mentioned, he's not likely to to bring much in trade value. So, I don't think we have much choice other than to stick with him for now and focus on replacing some of the more horrible performers and building depth that can handle the injuries better. Also, he should be cheap for the next couple of years and highly motivated to improve his value before he hit's FA in 2022.