floplag

gee, you think? problem with your analogy is that Tanaka is NOT rolled up quads... you are on top pair facing both a straight and a flush draw, how do you like it now?

too late for us to wait... lol

why? just cause you dont agree with them doesn't mean they should be changed, maybe your casual opinion of pot is what should be changed... but im sure you will disagree with that.. which is fine i guess

no, it isnt.. im talking about the man being suspended for using an illegal drug on the ban list when he was well aware of the ramifications... you guys are bringing the peripheral nonsense into when its moot.

What did you all think was going to happen when we pulled out of there overnight? This was completely predictable

are we really going to run every possible offense out there or should we stick to the issue of illegal and on the ban list... its really not difficult. is speeding on the ban list? no is dui on the ban list, no again if you wanna argue whether they should be or not thats a different issue

actually yes there is, its called illegal.

Judging your own ability to drive cautious while impaired is exactly what im talking about... you are not capable of determining your ability to drive when impaired, period. Its like asking the lunatics to judge the sanity of the inmates.

ok, a few issues with this post....why pay more for less is the obvious one.. changes in posting or economy be damned. aside from that though you guys knocks Garza for being worse in a few years but expect Tanaka to be better? the difference between 28 and 33 isnt that huge that this makes logical sense to me. i also think the assertaion that Tanaka is the best pitcher available is a bit of a reach.. ive stated why and wont do so again but even IF that satement is true, it isnt by a huge margin and the only real reason you are saying that is the fact that he is 25 instead of 30. Either way it still comes down to a contract that makes sense.. is it worth paying Tanaka twice what we might pay Garza for example for approximately the same production? i understand the reason why you want him.. i do, and im right there with you if the contract makes sense... but in my mind im not paying this guy 120 mil over 6 years for example.. no way no how. just because he might be the best available doesn't make him great or the best option. If we sign him, we are done... probably over the lux tax, and zero flexibility or options. This is the part that perhaps bothers me the most. taking a giant risk and leaving our hands tied as a result. i see other options i think should be explored.. not just in FA pitchers.. ive stated before i think our best option is to trade for the starter with either Kendrick or Aybar, fill the spot from within, max out the pen thru FA or even sign a Garza type for depth, and keep some flexibility for mid season trade options. As i know a lot here play poker ill put in In poker terms the Tanaka plan is all in on the flop praying the river card doesn't kill you...

i love this assumption that i dont understand the age thing, when i have stated multiple times in this thread i get it, i simply disagree in this case. i get that he is a 25 year old FA... i get that he would perform better over the next 5 years... i am 100% clear on all that... the point, once again, is that i do not think he is worth the rumored money over that time as we wont get value for said performance. you guys are expecting Darvish part 2, this is not it. i have given multiple stats, sources, and reference3s to back up the calim and all i keep getting are generalities in return... lets focus on this player. There are warning signs that this is a much bigger risk than many of you seem to want to see... thats fine i guess., but to me the risk is too great. i understand the team needs, i get it. but desperation moves are not going to help us especially when they leave us with no flexibility in payroll, and no way to address any other issues. If this was a 50 mil guy i would be all over it... if this contract was Darvish money without the posting fee i would be ok with it... i am not ok with paying twice what darvish got regardless of the changes in posting and economy.. im simply not, not when we are talking about a lesser pitcher, now.. as has been run out there at me i will turn it back on you and say if those statements are not understood im not sure what else to sya on my end either... and we can simply agree to disagree

I'm sorry, but this statement is so full of wrong i dont even know where to start... how can anything that impairs be harmless? alcohol proves that wrong beyond any reasonable doubt and you have to make a lot bigger effort with booze than pot

lol, or perhaps im a guy that knows pot isnt a harmless as you paint it to be? bet that didnt occur to you, but i guess thats moot too.

maybe the better question is why are those things not suspendable offenses, not why isnt pot? just a thought. either way alcohol still isnt an illegal drug which is a key difference regardless.

either way im well aware of that as well... i simply dont think the margin between them is large enough to justify the cost over a longer period of time considering some of his numbers are already in decline, his K rate most notably... the assertion that this isnt possible is also not true.

of course i do, and why do you assume the projections would be better at 30 than 25? What is the warning signs are right and he isnt what you think he will be? i didnt say they were not positive either... a 3.5 pitchers isnt crap. but it comes down to cost, performance for the investment, and payroll flexibility. it isnt that i dont like him, i just dont think he is worth the rumors and such.

the comparison were based on pitchers with similar stuff, and what they project out to.. age and anything else really doesnt affect that so you can run the "hes 25" out there all you want and tell me its not the same as other players with a similar WAR, but based on the stuff, those are his projections... and the other article linked also combine to tell me he isnt worth near what hes likely to get paid. argue it all you want, thats fine, but this isnt just me saying it at this point so... take it for whatever itsa worth and you better pray im wrong, and they are wrong, if we bite on this one

im sure the smokers among us will disagree but its really rather simple, alcohol is not an illegal drug, weed is... even abusing alcohol isnt illegal unless something bad happens... thus champagne in the clubhouse... whereas even possessing weed is a crime in most places. bottom line the comparison is moot, silly, and irrelevant... any questions? we can argue the merits of this in another thread but these facts are what they are... smoking pot is not only illegal, but is specifically on the ban list.. the players know this, if they are stupid enough tio light up and value that over their career, thats on them, no sympathy from me

Based on the recent discussions here i came across this today and thought some would find it interesting... http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/looking-for-comps-for-masahiro-tanaka/ to summarize it basically says that Tanaka would project out to be about the same as Garza or Santana in 2014 while costing perhaps twice as much... more or less the same thing that many here, myself included, have said and been ridiculed for

noone from SoCal can be called a traitor against the Rams when the Rams ran out on us first... i had season tix the last few years in SoCal and have damned them as bastards ever since.

and a lot of other say that his ratios have been going the worng way over the last couple of years,, his Ks are down drastically.. read the ones that you dont agree with as well as the ones you do, or at least acknowledge them

Noone is questioning that point.. i am very clear on the facts that there is market adjustment.. i am very clear that salaries have risen.. i am very clear on all of these points and they are not in dispute.... my point, since it is being completely ignored, is that this man is not worth that kind of money under any circumstances. This man is not Darvish the sequel... He doesnt have the kind of stuff, variety or pitches, control, or anything else to even merit being compared to Darvish other than the fact that they were both Japanese aces... Yet you want to pay him more than Darvish even adjusting for market inflation? If you take the itme to research it, youll find article projecting him to be a mid 3 era pitcher that has basically 3 pitches and the potential to get hit hard with a flat fastball. noone ever said anything like that about Darvish. people suggesting he could project to a 2 are being extremely optimistic ... 3-4 is more probable. i get hes younger.. i get he could be locked up long term.. i get all that, but those are only positives if he performs at the levels you all expect or assume him to perform i understand the whole hes basically a FA thing, but that doesnt justify over paying regardless of market. some of you are so desperate for pitching you are overlooking things that could bite us in the ass worse than anything we have on the roster now. We have the ability to fill the #3 thru trades... but some of you think our guys are worth more than they are too so you dont like trades If we made this deal at that level of salary, we are into the tax, have zero roster flexibility, and are stuck with what we have regardless of the outcome, injuries, or anything else that may happen this season... to me its a bad plan when we could deal Kendrick or Aybar for a #3, promote from within and save some cap space and roster flexibility for the deadline if/when we need it. bottom line to me is that im against this at anything more than about 10 mil per, period... and since that probably doesnt get it done i wish him luck in NY or Sea.. which is where i bet he goes as they will overpay out of desperation to justify the other moves.

call it what you will that doesnt change the price that was paid for those services... free agent or not. you can call it dumb all you want but i would argue paying more than darvish for less than dice-k is equally illogical... but thats me. i hope we lose this one if the money is anywhere near that value

I love the justifications... if you going to compare him to Darvish, and/or pay him like Darvish he should pitch like Darvish.. he doesnt, end of comparison. If this wasnt such a down market for pitching he wouldnt even be getting this much press in my opinion.

the change in the posting fee doesnt change what the player should get... if Darvish wasnt worh more than 6/56 then this guy should get about 5/50 tops. i would do 5/50 but the contract value should not be significantly higher than Darvish less than 2 years later for a lesser pitcher.

absolutely zero chance i would pay him more annual value than Darvish got... he will not be as good