Angelsjunky

Obligatory Roberto Baldoquin mention. Seriously, though, I'm going with Trent Deveaux. He hasn't played in pro ball yet, but I'm most excited about his debut at AZL in a month or so. Of those listed, Adell, Marsh, and Canning.

More: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mike-trout-is-now-an-average-hall-of-famer/

Warfarin, we really need to retrain you to spell Thaiss correctly. speaking of Thaiss, I don’t know why we need him when we have a Hall of Famer manning for first for years to come.

Oh stop it. (On the other hand, how awesome would it be if I had the power to effect the career of the greatest living ball player?)

Speculation: fWAR through 2018, his age 26 season: 65 fWAR. That would put him in the top 100 and around the full careers of Jim Edmonds and Tony Gwynn. fWAR through 2021, his age 29 season: 90 fWAR. That would put him close to the top 25, and all while only playing in his 20s. If he reaches 90 fWAR by the end of 2021, he would be the first to do so at age 29 (even though ends 2021 at 30 years old, it is his age 29 season). fWAR through 2027, his age 35 season: 130 fWAR. Here's where it gets dicey, because we don't know how his second act will look. We can't assume he follows the Willie Mays or Hank Aaron path--both were as good or better in their 30s than in their 20s--but we can hope he doesn't follow the Mantle or Griffey path. I'm assuming somewhere in-between. fWAR through 2032, his age 40 season: 145 fWAR. Similarly above. Assuming he slows down substantially, but remains a productive player. 145 fWAR leaves him 5th all-time, behind only Ruth, Bonds, Mays, and Cobb. I can live with that. Of course there are still a wide range of outcomes, but that speculation assumes relative health and typical decline. Trout has been graced with excellent health, but is anything but typical. But at this point, assuming no catastrophic injury or decline, he could finish anywhere north of 120 fWAR.

The only players who are really comparable to Trout's career so far are Ty Cobb and Mickey Mantle, the only two players who have a higher fWAR through age 26 - and Trout will probably surpass both this year. Cobb isn't really comparable because he played a century ago. Mantle is more than half a century ago, but very similar in terms of skill set. The thing about Mantle, though, is that his best two years according to WAR were in 1956-57, when he was 24-25 years old. Trout is 26 and is on pace for his best WAR season, so he might be peaking a bit later than Mantle did, although this might be because of Mantle's drinking. Mantle was on a downturn from age 26-28, but then had another 10 WAR season at age 29, then was 6 or lower for the rest of his career. As I've said before, we can hope in Trout to see Mantle-like peak years, but more of them.

Early career, yes. Trout through age 25 (2011-2017): .306/.410/.566, 169 wRC+, 54.9 fWAR Bonds through age 25 (1986-90): .265/.358/.479, 132 wRC+, 31.1 fWAR Despite Bonds really only coming into his own in 1990 at age 25, his 31.1 fWAR through age 25 was still the third highest among position players for that span, behind only Wade Boggs (36.8) and Rickey Henderson (35.5). Trout, on the other hand, has been so much better than the competition--first in fWAR, and well above #2 Andrew McCutchen (39.0). And that includes his 2011 season in which he only played 40 games. What we don't know is how much better Trout will get. Bonds became Trout-level in 1990 at age 25; Trout is 26 now and possibly still getting better. Trout's 2018 triple-slash is almost identical to 2017, so presumably this is his new level. But there is a sense that he could up it a bit. Right now he's at .294/.440/.632 (last year he was .306/.442/.629). Both seasons saw him post low BABIPs...he ended 2017 on a slump and he's just pulling himself out of a slump, so I wouldn't be surprised to see his numbers trend upward and him ending the year something like .310/.450/.650 with 45 HR, 190+ wRC+ and 10 fWAR.

I love Joey Votto and players like him: more substance than flash. He doesn't hit 40 HR a year, but he hits 25-35, draws 100++ walks (three seasons of 135 or higher, five times leading the NL), hits .300+. His career line is absurd: .312/.427/.537. He's the Edgar Martinez of this era. Votto is the type of player that should get into the Hall but might not. It all depends upon counting stats at this point, and it really shouldn't. nd actually, Edgar is an interesting comp. Edgar probably would have gotten in if the Mariners hadn't delayed his major league debut; Edgar wasn't a regular until 1990, at age 27, languishing in AAA for several years. Here are their career lines: EDGAR: 2055 games, .312/.418/.515, 309 HR, 1261 RBI, 1219 Runs, 147 wRC+, 65.5 fWAR VOTTO: 1477 games, .312/.427/.537, 263 HR, 854 RBI, 885 Runs, 157 wRC+, 53.9 fWAR That said, I think both Edgar and Votto will get in eventually, seeing as baseball knowledge is increasing and the Hall voters are getting younger and more sabermetrically savvy. Edgar will be voted in with other underrated players like Bobby Grich and Jim Edmonds. Votto really only needs to play a few more years at a decent level and he's in.

Joe Morgan was great, especially from 1972-76, one of the greatest five-year peaks in baseball history. During those years he accrued 47.3 fWAR, or 9.5 per season. His 11.0 fWAR in 1975 is the 25th highest all time, and the highest non Bondsian season since Yaz in 1967.

Fixed.

OK, fair enough - and a good point. I think 3B is similar in having fewer truly great players than other positions, and of course catcher.The best athletes and overall players gravitate to SS and CF, with the lesser defenders moving to the corner outfield positions, the great hitters but lesser athletes playing first. 2B sometimes gets the leftovers from the shortstop talent.

1990 only, when he hit .325/.439/.577 with a 190 wRC+ and 10.2 fWAR, his highest seasonal total. 1985 was also amazing: .314/.419/.516 with 80 SB, 9.7 fWAR, and 146 runs scored.

Those numbers are pretty close to average, @Inside Pitch. I'll grant you that Howie was usually an above average hitter for a second baseman, but not significantly so. And as I said, being consistently average to above average is pretty good. So I'm not knocking him for being what he was. As far as his all-time ranking as a second baseman, it is interesting to look at who some of the players are who are ranking similarly and with similar PA. Brian Roberts, Ray Durham, Luis Castillo, Robby Thompson, Mark Ellis, etc....pretty much the Hall of the Above Average. Jose Altuve is close, but he's played over 400 fewer games and will jump over all of these guys.

What do you folks thing about Ray Durham as a comp for Jones? Durham hit .277/.352/.436 with 30-30 SB and 15-20 HR as a second baseman from 1995-2008. I could see something like that from Jones, with peak seasons in the .290+/.800+ range.

Jahmai Jones hasn't been killing it with the bat, but one good sign is that his walk rate is going up: he's walked 21 times in 35 games, or a 13.2% rate, up from roughly 8-9% the rest of his minor league career.

I can agree with this. Although this isn't saying much. But the only Angels second baseman who was clearly greater was Bobby Grich. All-time Angels fWAR leaders for Angels second basemen (Angels career only): 1. Bobby Grich 35.6 2. Howie Kendrick 22.9 3. Adam Kennedy 15.6 4. Bobby Knoop 12.3 5. Maicer Izturis 12.1 It drops off after that with Randy Velarde at #6 with 5.8 fWAR. We can hope that one of Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones, or Rivas will change that list.

Perhaps by being consistently average, with occasional good years, he was overall above average. "Great" is defined as "considerably above the normal or average." Howie was not considerably above average, and thus not a "great baseball player." Let's call him "good" and we'll split the difference.

I'd definitely keep Canning and Suarez in AA for another month or two, maybe promote to AAA around the ASB. At the very latest we'll probably see them in September, but if one or both look really good in AAA we'll see them sooner as the Angels will want them eligible for the postseason.

Its amazing that he might be better than his dad. Vlad Jr = Vlad Sr + Plate Discipline. Scary thought.

What a log-jam at 2B: Fletcher, Jones, Rengifo, Rivas. One ends up as the 2B of the future, another as the super UT. Will be fun to see how this pans out. On the other hand, there is no certainty that Simmons is resigned after 2020. He'll be 31 and either very expensive or starting to show signs of slowing. But we shall see.

We basically said the same thing. I don't think you should apologize if you are defending Bonds. He gets more grief than any other roider. In the end, he was a great player--the best of his generation--who through steroid use became arguably the greatest player ever. If he hadn't roided out, his career numbers would have probably looked something like a slightly lesser Willie Mays or, at worse, Frank Robinson. So rather than top 2 all time, top 10 or 20.

Bonds was a surly fellow, but boy could he play ball. He was actually a bit underrated in the 90s - the best player in the game, but he wasn't fully recognized as such except by stat geeks. I know he was on roids in 2001-04, but he dominated like no player has since, well, Babe Ruth. He was so much better than everyone else - including other roided out players. And in the 90s, he was basically Mike Trout level good, except he played LF. If I remember correctly, he played left rather center both because Andy Van Slyke was the center fielder in Pittsburgh when he came up, and he had a weak arm. Like Trout has (or had).

I always liked Howie, but he wasn't a "great player." We can appreciate him without over-exagerrating, just because he got hurt - and I feel bad for him, but he's had a pretty good run. Howie was pretty much the definition of an average player who had the occasional above average season. 13 years in the majors, 11 of those seasons 2.4 fWAR or lower. His best years (according to fWAR): 5.3 in 2011, 4.6 in 2014. And yeah, he was disappointing relative to his minor league batting line which made him look like a future batting champion.

Another thing. The most similar player to Mike Trout may not be Mickey Mantle, it may be peak but pre-roid Barry Bonds. Bonds reached a new level of play in 1990 and form what I read he started taking steroids sometime in 1999 or 2000. So let's look at 1990-98: Barry Bonds 1990-98 (nine seasons): 1332 games, .305/.438/.600, 173 wRC+, 78 fWAR, 327 HR, 328 SB 162 game averages: 9.5 fWAR, 40 HR, 40 SB Oh yeah, that's 16.9 fWAR over #2 during those years, Ken Griffey. That's +28%. Trout 2012-18 (six+ seasons): 931 games, .309/.415/.575, 172 wRC+, 57.4 fWAR, 210 HR, 169 SB 162 game averages: 10 fWAR, 37 HR, 29 SB So yeah...pretty similar.

He's at 41 walks through 47 games. That's a pace of 141 walks in 162 games. His 19.8% walk rate is third best in the majors, after Bryce Harper (21.1%) and Justin Bour (20.4%). If he maintains it, it is the fourth season in a row that it went up, from 11.8% in 2014, then 13.5%, 17%, 18.5% last year. 41 walks is also 3 more than Garret Anderson ever drew in an entire season.