ksangel

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

the way the draft is structured these days and the way the Halos use their pool, the second round pick becomes very important because of the amount of money you lose if you don't have it.  It's a big reason why they've been successful at getting high upside players or having that extra flexibility if you need to pay your first or third round pick over slot.  It's not a huge deal but I am sure they have a bunch of math on this they've done behind the scenes to calculate the type of player it's worth doing it for.  

I appreciate that insight...but to go back to my original comment...2nd round players typically don't become productive MLB players...that's indisputable because the facts are there. And that information possibly would play into choosing between Grandal and Ramos if Grandal is viewed by the Angels as a much better FA choice.

Somehow posters on this site skewed off on a tangent from my original comment (2nd round players typically don't make the majors) to whether Eppler was part of the decision making on Yankees drafting players.  Whether Eppler was part of the Yankees draft choices is irrelevant to whether 2nd round players make it to the majors and how that impacts Angels deciding whether or not to go after Grandal rather than Ramos.

Seems posters are more concerned with bashing other's posts then understanding them.

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Tell yourself whatever you want but that's not how it works.  Eppler was VP of Baseball operations in charge of pro scouting.  Tim Naehring took over his role in NY and despite his having been the Cincinati Reds farm director he isn't involved in any amateur draft decisions either.

From MLB.com

"From 2004 thru 2015, Eppler worked his way up the New York Yankees baseball operations department. He was initially hired as Assistant Director of Baseball Operations, Nov. 1, 2004. Eppler would eventually be promoted to Director of Professional Scouting from 2006-09 and Senior Director of Professional Personnel from 2010-11. He finished his fourth season as Assistant General Manager and first as Vice-President in '15. His responsibilities for the Yankees and assisting General Manager Brian Cashman included player acquisitions, roster composition and management, staffing and personnel decisions, and player contract negotiations. In addition, he oversaw all phases and personnel in the Yankees' Major League and professional scouting departments both domestically and internationally." 

Yeah sure he wasn't involved in the draft for the Yankees...

And read this article - Eppler undoubtedly was in on scouting Justice.

https://www.mlb.com/news/oral-history-of-yankees-drafting-aaron-judge/c-278026828

But believe what you want.

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Eppler wasn't involved with the draft while with the yankees.... He ran their professional scouting dept... He was involved in them getting Colon, Chavez, Freddy Garcia, Russell Martin, etc etc....

He was assistant General Manager from 2011 on so he was involved in the draft.

22 hours ago, Stradling said:

Don’t take this the wrong way because this isn’t about you, but I hate when people bring up these types of things when they are no longer relevant.  None of those guys were drafted by Eppler and his team.  It would be more relevant if you put the Yankees second round picks while Eppler was there.  It would be like a Dodger fan saying they shouldn’t trade a starting pitcher because they once traded Pedro Martinez.  Or they shouldn’t trade an outfielder because they once traded Lou Brock.  

2nd round Yankee picks under Eppler:

JB Cox, Scott Biddle, JR Murphy, Angelo Gumbs, Sam Stafford, Peter O'Brien, Austin Aune, Gosuke Katoh, Jacob Lindgren and Austin Romine...

Not exactly household MLB names or players who have become front line players or even average players who are/were starters.  So even Eppler didn't have a Midas touch with the Yankees drafting in the 2nd round.

Didn't think I needed to include this list in original post. Thought it was clear enough that 2nd round picks typically fail to reach the majors. From my research (baseballreference.com) about 90% of 2nd rounders achieve little or no success in the majors. Third and fourth rounders even achieve less success - under 5% of those drafted reach the majors and are regulars.

And with the Angels having approximately the 56th pick of the draft next year in the second round,  that draft pick historically has achieved success in the majors 5 times in the last 46 drafts...so is saving that pick worth taking Ramos over Grandal?

There would seem to be more to Eppler saving draft picks then him thinking they will be productive players in the majors...possibly amassing upper level draft picks to raise the perception of the minor league talent pool for future trades - "be a top 5" per Eppler?  Plus the Angels decimated their minor league system in 2010 and 11 since Bolden, Lindsey, Clarke and Cowart did not make it to the majors or become regulars and also not having first round picks in 2012 and 2013 by signing Pujols, Hamilton and Wilson -  so restocking the talent is also necessary for prolonged chance of success.

And I didn't take it personally btw - just should have been clearer what I meant.

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

three of our top 4 prospects are 2nd round picks.  

Daniel Tillman, Ryan Mount, Nick Maronde, Joe Gatto, Jarod Abruzzo, and Anthony Whittington were 2nd round picks but so we're Tyler Chatwood, Patrick Corbin, Dallas McPherson and Kevin Jepsen. So it appears the Angels have had more 2nd rounders not pan out. Too early to tell with Jones, Marsh and Canning. Tough choice to make

Dodgers sign Harper

angels sign Machado 

Yanks trade for Kluber

Red Sox will have 9 players making over $11M with four over $20M.

Angels could afford both Trout and Harper it's just a matter of Artie doing it. Three years over the cap then Pujols contract is gone and Adell, Jones, Canning and Ward should be regulars at league minimum.

Have a good chance to grab a wild card spot next year but not with Calhoun in RF if Fletcher is at 2B and Cozart at 3B...come on Artie go for it!

Yes and then sign Harper which means you also jettison Calhoun and at least part of his salary. Thaiss replaces Albert at 1st and Harper, a sure thing in RF, replaces an unknown  Adell.

Revision to earlier entry

Moustakas 2yrs @ $16M

Suzuki 2yrs @ $8

Lynn 2yrs @ $16M

Gibson (trade) 1yr @ $8MM

Descalso 1yr @ $2M

$30M total

$ Figures from MLBTrade Rumors

Wonder if the Red Sox fans are pining about trading Moncada for an ace now?

Ramos 3 yrs $27M

C.C. Sabathia 1yr $10M

Kyle Gibson $8M (arbitration #) Acquire via trade with Twins

Leaves $3M for Descalso

Understood but Simmons could become the best 2B too and Machado will not sign unless he can play SS. Other great players have changed positions and thrived. As I said...my fantasy and I'm tired of below .500 record and watching October baseball without the Angels in it.

As a fantasy I just bought the Angels and am not worried about $'s like the Dodgers of today and Yankees of old.  I want to play for the WS every year and give Angel fans what Arte wouldn't give them with all his $$$$$$$$$$$'s...a winner!!!

So this is what would "I" would do - not what the current Owner would do.

Instruct Eppler to plan for a four to five year window of win now and during that time keep rebuilding the farm system as a pipeline and as trade chips so when this window passes we're ready for the next four to five years.

1st order of business I buy out Pujols and make him the hitting coach/assistant manager for $10M/ year for 10 years thus getting rid of his contract but paying him for the money owed...no one says I can't pay him anything I want as a hitting coach/assistant manager.

Hire Astros bench coach Jose Espada as manager.  He'll be in sync with Eppler on using stats...please go read what Garrett Cole recently said about how the Astros use of stats made him a better pitcher.

DFA all dead weight...Shoemaker, Coward, Despaign, Bedorosian...etc.  Love Shoe but we need players who have produced.

Trade Adell, Canning and others for deGrom...we now have our ace to go up against the Verlander's , Kershaw's..etc.  With signing of Harper don't need Adell and with signing of deGrom and return of Ohtani as a pitcher in 2020 don't need Canning.  Good use of farm system because deGrom and Harper are All-Stars...Adell is a maybe all-star and Canning will never be what deGrom is.

Sign both Harper and Machado and also Marwin Gonzalez - who will play 3B, SS, 1B, LF and RF...this will allow shifting of all players.

Move Simmons to 2B where he will become an all-star both defensively and offensively and extend his career.

Sign Martin Maldonado..if Astros can win with him so can we...no big bucks for Grandal or trade for Marlins catcher

Sign Zach Britton which adds power lefty to pen.

Sign JA Happ type starter - righty innings eater...Lance Lynn is another possibility

Trade Calhoun and Cozart by paying a good portion of their salaries...another get rid of "dead weight" non-producers move.

Batting order

Trout CF - who wants to face him leading off? 

Ohtani DH

Machado SS/3B

Harper RF

Upton LF/1B

Gonzalez 3B, SS, 1B, LF...etc...

Fernandez 1B/2B - I keep him to save a little $'s and reward him for the hustle and effort he showed in 2018...becomes a Spezio type 1B on a loaded offensive team...can also play 2B.

Maldonado C

Simmons 2B

Bench:

Briceno C

Jon Jay OF

Fletcher UT

Pitchers:

deGrom, Skaggs, JA Happ, Heaney and Barria

Britton, Robles, Anderson, Buttry, Parker, Alvarez, Cole, Pina

Again, this is fantasy but the thread was "Let's hear your plan".

Some of this should happen like signing a known relief pitcher like Britton, an innings eating right handed pitcher like Happ/Lynn and quit thinking Shoe or Pina will be OK, a utility player like Marwin Gonzalez, who allows Ward to go back to AAA and hone his 3B defense for I think he is the future 3B but just not next year and signing Machado and moving Simmons to 2B.  These two could both play SS and Machado could play 3B from time to time letting Gonzalez move around.  Kole will be RF in 2019 and Adell in 2020.

And I know Pujols will be at 1B in 2019...hopefully it is his last year and for only about 100 games.  Fernandez and Gonzalez can play there too.

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

That is fine of course.

What about the still terrible RISP numbers and fielding?   Plus there is no room at DH/1B, unless they trade Thaiss, Pujols accepts a reduction to 120 starts next season, and Ohtani returns to the mound and cuts back on DH starts.

Taking off the rose colored glasses we all view Trout and Calhoun's defense with, Upton is not that bad.

But if you put the rose colored Trout/Calhoun defensive glasses on, Upton stinks...so just keep them off and see Upton for what he is...a decent LF'er defensive and productive bat who's having some issues with RISP this year and part of last year...

3 hours ago, Glen said:

Valbuena is now our starting 3b.

Predict Valbuena will start against righties and Marte against lefties at 3B.

Coward will be utility infielder backing up Fletcher at second and Simmons at SS and late inning defensive replacement at 3B...he had his shot at starting at 3B and failed to hit in the limited number at bats he was given. 

Neither Valbuena or Marte can play 2B...well at least Valbuena shouldn't since he's only played 3B and 1B this year.

Angels won 2002 WS with Benji hitting .245/.274 with 5hrs and 47 rbi's so don't think catcher is the Angels need for 2019. 

Would rather resign Maldonado and wouldn't it be great to get a solid lefty minor leaguer from Houston for the trade and resign Maldonado?

Getting an Ace and closer are the needs.

Adding Fletcher to the line up and exiling Valbuena to the deep bench has been the spark for the offense which hopefully continues on this season into 2019 plus Ohtani will have a year under his belt at DH.

Would only trade Adell if it brings back an ace like Chris Sale like Boston did trading Moncada and not sure I'd trade Adell anyways.  May need him to replace Trout in the near future...hopefully not but who knows.

45 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Jo Adell is 19 yrs, 113 days.
Jahmai Jones is 20 yrs, 360 days.

Can't 100% verify the tweet below but maybe he did the homework already...

Jared Tims‏ @Jared_Tims 1h1 hour ago

MorePer @Mobile_BayBears #Angels top prospect Jo Adell has been promoted to AA *He will be the youngest player in the Southern League by 1 year 8 months and 4 days(Jahmai Jones)*

Juan Soto of the Nationals is 19 years 9months and 5 days and is in the majors.  Ronald Acuna is younger and Kolby Allard and Mike Soroka of the Braves are same age as Jahmai Jones and are in the majors too...so technically they are younger or same as Jones and above AA.

But impressive that Adell has reached AA already...what a coup for the Angels to get him at #10 in the draft.

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I agree that catcher is the spot we definitely have to upgrade, but why not just sign Grandal as a FA instead and keep the prospects?  We have considerably payroll available and are unlikely to pursue the several franchise players available, so we might as well go all in after Grandal.  Beyond just being a strong defensive catcher, he'd also provide us with the LH power that our lineup really needs.

Not picking on this post but am wondering why the Angels would sign another player (Grandal) 30 years old?  When will they start getting younger?  Why have minor leaguers?  Just to trade them for old players or languish in the minors?

Pujols 39 or more likely 41

Cozart 33

Calhoun 31

Upton 31

Simmons 29

Trout 27

Ohtani 24

Why not sign Donaldson (33) or Beltre (39) to play 3B and then go all out and sign Bartolo (45) as the #5 starter too!!!

The LA Geriatric Angels

Tired of the Angels continuing to sign old players past their prime...time to let players like Fletcher, Ward, Thaiss...etc. play and also get creative and trade for younger players just on the verge of breaking into the majors.

At least Barria (21), Skaggs (27), Heaney (27) and Trop (28) are on the under side of 30.

Should have been far better.

 But they couldn't absorb three starting pitchers that were being counted on going down (Richards, Ohtani and Ramirez) the loss of a key reliever (Middleton), poor offensive seasons from four regulars (Calhoun, Cozart, Kinsler and Valbuena) which magnified Pujol's limited offensive abilities and put extreme pressure on Trout and Simmons to carry the offense, and extremely poor hitting with RISP from the four/five hitter (Upton). 

But a bright side is if they keep playing like they are they should have the # 8-10 pick in the draft next year and we all know who they picked in the first and second rounds of 2017 when they had the #10 pick.

1 hour ago, mulwin444 said:

Yeah, the infielders are a disaster this year.  Moustakas and Hosmer both were suspect options last season and SD really screwed the pooch on that 8 year deal...wow.

J.D. Martinez was always going to be a Red Sox, is was just a matter of them working out a contract.  Cain would have been a solid option but, in comparing Upton and Cain, they had similar seasons last year (Cain 4.8 WAR, Upton 5.7 WAR) but Upton was almost two years younger.  Obviously, Upton has struggled to match last seasons but both are capable of 4 to 5 WAR year in, year out.

All the starting pitching favorites have struggled in one form or another and, holy shit, what happened to Tyler Chatwood?!  I know there were people on the board who wanted him but, with his BB/9 and WHIP, I could never understand why.  Now, his control has completely left him.  Bullpen results are scary as well.

No easy fixes through free agency.

If the Angels don't sign Upton to a new contract but let him walk there was no assurance they could sign Cain...so Upton was the safer choice to make sure the Angels finally had a legit LF in 2018 and forward. 

As totdprods list shows - signing FA's is a crapshoot...and Kinsler, Valbuena and Cozart prove that.

Always Look on the Bright Side of Life

Always Look on the Light Side of life

If the ANGELS Seem Jolly Rotten

There's Something You've Forgotten

And That's to Laugh and

Smile and Dance and Sing

When You're Feeling in the Dumps

Don't Feel Silly Chumps

Just Purse Your Lips and Whistle

There's always Next Year!

If Ohtani has to have TJ then the Angels probably don't have a choice but to go after a top of rotation type pitcher like deGrom which probably means trading Adell + others.

Seems they would need more than Skaggs and Heaney to compete against the Sale's, Verlander's, Severino's, Kluber's, Scherzer's and Kershaw's.

But they also need to retool the bullpen and 3B and.....

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Come September, let's see what they all can do.  Rengifo, Ward, Thaiss, Fletcher, Hermosillo, Fernandez.....

Get them in the lineup on a consistent basis.  If nothing else, it'll give them a small taste of the adjustments they'll need to make if they want to succeed in the majors and it'll allow the Angels to gauge a little on the prospective 2019 roster.  Every single one of those guys is capable of hitting major league pitching if they make the proper adjustments. 

Don't guarantee a roster spot to any position player outside of Trout, Ohtani, Simmons and Upton. 

Don't get me wrong, I love this new and improved Kole Calhoun, but before I'm comfortable going with him next year, I'd need to know that we won't have to go through another April, May June slump that completely torpedoes the offense. 

Add Pujols to your list of 4...he's going to play 1B next year with Ohtani DH'ing...ugh...and Kole won't be shipped out after his resurrection and I believe they will keep Cozart and put him at 2B/SS...which was the original intent until they signed Kinsler. 

Agree with you that it's time to concede getting the wild card this year and see what the six you list can do...especially Ward since 3B is a big hole this year and in the future.

Anyone think it would take trading Adell to get Hand?

Cleveland just gave up the #5 overall prospect (Mejia) for Hand plus another reliever...WOW what a steep price for a closer and a RP.

Can't image what the price for someone like deGrom would be...Adell, Canning plus others?

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

As long as Pujols is contributing in at least one way, he'll be here. He's fielding well and hitting well with runners on as a situational bat in the lineup. He'll be here through 2019 barring something in his life that makes him choose not to be, such as another significant injury or an abrupt desire to step aside.

Cozart will have first dibs at 2B/3B fulltime next year, but a midseason transition to a UT role wouldn't surprise me if Fletcher and Ward play well. 

Very curious to see what Eppler's plans are. He's never ceded playing time to a rookie at the onset of a season - we've never really had anyone to cause that - but he could very well let Kinsler, Marte, and Valbuena walk and replace with Ward, Thaiss, and Fletcher next year and the team would be in just as good shape. Or will he sign more vets?

Ohtani was given starting gig as rookie...but yeah he's an exception and exceptional so probably takes a rookie of that talent to start for the Angels.