FanSince'98

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

But really, why bother compare Trout to just any old Hall of Famers? At this point, he stacks up strictly with the very best of all time. Only two players accrued more WAR through their age-26 seasons than Trout: Ty Cobb (63.4) and Mickey Mantle (61.4). When Trout was a top prospect, the Mantle comparisons seemed reckless, if not downright irresponsible. Fast forward to today, and Mantle is the only comparison worth making.

We can no longer be surprised by Trout's shockingly realistic march towards G.O.A.T. status -- we can only appreciate and applaud it.

 

Link to full article

 

Considering Cobb and Mantle played against a lower level of competition Trout seems to clearly be on pace for the best player of all time/GOAT status. Easily the best player of all time through age-26 in my opinion. 

3.18 ERA for Johnson this year, WHIP is high, but for what we gave up I'll take that as a win. We gave up Kelly who is no good so far. Johnson had a 5+ ERA last year and looks like a totally different guy in Angel red. 

32 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

So we're about 40 games into the season now, so it seems like a fair time to assess Albert's stats for this year.

I know he's been discussed ad naseum, but this year was supposed to be different with the weight loss, right? Well...

 

He's batting .256/.289/.421, an OPS+ of 93 and a WAR of 0.1 in 173 PAs.

 

I think we're seeing the last year of Albert as a full time regular. His off season regiment obviously hasn't helped much.

I'm fine with him being in the lineup since we can't let $30m sit on the bench, but Scioscia has to take him out of the 4-hole. It's getting ridiculous, everyone says Pujols refuses to accept that, but too bad. He'll drop Calhoun and Kinsler when they're struggling, rightfully so, why does Pujols get babied? Since we traded Cron like fools, we don't really have anyone else to play 1B, this is exactly why I wish we kept him, but I've been a Cron fanboy from day 1. Especially since Pujols is so injury prone, if he goes down who do we count on, Valbuena? Marte is the better player there but never sees the field. 

Credit to the coaching staff too. Skaggs was consistently struggling until they developed that change up and Heaney was a work in progress (maybe still is) with injury problems until this year. They also helped Ohtani develop and adapt quickly, not just on the mound, but culturally it seems like. They had the courage to trust a 21 year old Barria and work with him which is hard to do. Not just the rotation but it seems like Johnson and Parker have found their groove here too. 

20 hours ago, Billy_Ball said:

I wonder if we'll see Griffin Canning this season.  Mr. "Start a no-hitter."

If he keeps performing like he is in AA, 6 starts 1.95 ERA 1.048 WHIP, he HAS to be called up at least when the rosters expand if not sooner. That being said, it's only his first year in the minors so he's had very little time to show if he can handle pressure or recovering from bad starts. 

On 7/30/2017 at 8:31 AM, nate said:

Absolutely, but I think they won't.  And I don't think it is Billy, I think it is Arte.

Are the Angels just a cash cow for Arte at this point? 

....aaannnndddd we still haven't done jack. 

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I've touched on this several times - it doesn't seem to compute.

None of what I'm saying has to do with what I think, I'm simply promoting factual stats that prove your statements wrong and it's upsetting you because you're probably googling like crazy trying to find stats proving me wrong lol. 

Ya the concept of a front office sales team and their process is foreign to most people not familiar with sport's franchise' front office where I spent 2 years working. Most general fans automatically think what you think which isn't true. There's a reason certain GMs and certain teams trade with each other often like SEA & ARI, relationships, trust, value, process, etc. all matters. 

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I don't.  but it doesn't matter what I think or what you think.  That's the problem you are having.  They were 2.5 gb three days ago and now they're 5.5.  Even at 2.5 I know they weren't good enough.  But a small win streak from 2.5 gb (like reeling off 5 or 6 wins in a row) and you could be right there.  We subsequently got swept.  

What I am saying to you is that after said sweep, he's going to start selling.  Give it the 4-5 days.  If he didn't sell you can come back here and be the coolest guy ever. 

BTW in 5 days we can't trade any more without waivers so....hopefully it's 3-4 days? haha

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I don't.  but it doesn't matter what I think or what you think.  That's the problem you are having.  They were 2.5 gb three days ago and now they're 5.5.  Even at 2.5 I know they weren't good enough.  But a small win streak from 2.5 gb (like reeling off 5 or 6 wins in a row) and you could be right there.  We subsequently got swept.  

What I am saying to you is that after said sweep, he's going to start selling.  Give it the 4-5 days.  If he didn't sell you can come back here and be the coolest guy ever. 

Noted.

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

He's been used as a SP this year..  He's started 185 games in his career -- out of 287 appearances...   its funny you're ignoring that....     But then again, you think WAR and ERA are predictive.... 

Ya and now he's almost 30 and has spent 3 straight year in the bullpen, SD used him as a starter because they're non-competitive and wanted to make a trade and SELL to another team, well hot damn look at that they sold MUCH BETTER THAN US if they got a prospect for Cahill.

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm not making excuses..   It will be disappointing if he doesn't move them for something.  But to lose faith over it -- well..  that's ignorant.    You'd be losing faith in the same guy that picked those guys up off the discard pile and got something out for nothing.   Again, it's the idiotic notion that a team can FORCE another team to enter into a trade while ignoring what those teams may want or have available to them that I find laughable.

Deadline is a few days off -- Im still hoping they are able to find takers...   It'll suck if they don't.

Ya again nobody implied forcing another team into anything, all you said was our players weren't as desirable, which is statistically false. They're better players and are more desirable to have on their teams, it's the fact that we aren't offering the right deals or selling the right way. If you are a salesperson and your product is superior yet you can't make a sale maybe you should look at your process. It's not like we've been great at adding prospects for a while now. 

Just now, fan_since79 said:

If Toronto sweeps us this weekend, it's SELL everything not named Trout.

I want to see a total rebuild and a return to the postseason within 3-5 years. That's assuming we extend Trout. An absolute must.

 

I understand wanting to be patient but the more patient we are the more teams fall off the board as partners because they already made their moves. I just think we should give up on this year and be pragmatic for the future. 

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

LOL.     So which of Norris or Hernandez is capable of being a SP like Cahill?   Mauer is crap I agree -- but he was a throw in as part of the Cahill deal along with Ryan Butcher another LHRP, and Estuery Ruiz, a minor league SS putting up a OPS near .900.    Maurer is also under club control through 2020..  No idea what KC is looking for there.  But perhaps you could enlighten us since you got all the answers...

Last year Cahill pitched in 50 games and started 1, same for the previous 2 seasons, funny you think he's a capable SP. lol

Just now, Dochalo said:

How do you know what sort of sales job Eppler is doing with our players.  

We were 2.5 gb of the WC three days ago and there are 4 days left before the deadline.  

He'll trade any of our expiring contracts if he can.  

I think you should staff off your 'jump to conclusions' mat for a few more days and wait to see what happens.  

Well if you genuinely think this team is good enough to make a playoff run then we shouldn't even debate this because we don't have the same view of this team to begin with. I love what they did with the team and we're better off with Eppler, but he MUST sell right now or we're just treading water again. 

I'm not saying he will sell them solely based on their WAR but to make excuses for Eppler and say these guys aren't valuable when EVERY piece of statistical evidence says you're wrong is mind boggling. Almost every reliever traded this year, except Neshek, is worse than Norris or Hernandez statistically. 

Just now, totdprods said:

Nunez can play more than one position. 

You're right Nunez provides an extra .1 in WAR huge value....

Maurer traded 5.58 ERA, Cahill traded 3.69 ERA

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

He's a left-hander..   Thats what the Rays were supposedly looking for in the pen.  

They just got Boxberger back off the DL..  They have Whitley and Hunter as RHs in front of Colome....   Again. WHAT YOU WANT - and what other teams are looking for/willing to do are two different things.  But please..  Keep stomping your foot while ignoring that simple fact.

 

HA okay boss, you keep living in your misunderstood fantasy world of baseball where the game is real and the stats don't matter. Nunez is a photo copy of escobar as a player and there are other RPs traded that are worse than Norris. You just have no defensible point based on the stats. 

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

What part isn't remotely true?  That better pitchers were available?  Or that they had better resumes?   Your opinion of "value" means nothing in this discussion.   Again. . What you want to happen and what others teams are willing to do are not one in the same.  

Jennings & Nunez are both lower value WAR players than Norris or Hernandez and we still can't negotiate a trade...you apparently haven't reviewed stats of these players traded because they aren't better than ours on paper, maybe in your opinion. 

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Oh, I agreed about the pitchers. 

Escobar's 2017 WAR IS 0.1

Nobody wanted him last year when he was much better. 

Nunez was traded his war right now for '17 is .2 lol.

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So....  nevermind that better, more diserable options were available.   These other teams should have settled for lesser talents with weaker recent resume's because some Angels message board poster wants his baba..  

Got it..   

Dan Jennings went to the Rays he has a 3.45 ERA/1.2 WHIP, better than Norris/Hernandez or they just got a better deal than we'd negotiate....? Because Jennings' stats are worse on paper. 

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

So....  nevermind that better, more diserable options were available.   These other teams should have settled for lesser talents with weaker recent resume's because some Angels message board poster wants his baba..  

Got it..   

Not even remotely true, it's about value, not the players, if you wanted Arenado but had to give up your entire farm team that's a worse deal than getting a farm prospect for a few bucks and a bag of baseballs. If we couldn't negotiate a real value for an RP with mid 2 ERAs then we're incompetent at negotiating trades. Again, doesn't mean our players don't have value and aren't desired. 

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Oh, I agreed about the pitchers. 

Escobar's 2017 WAR IS 0.1

Nobody wanted him last year when he was much better. 

I don't remember him ever being shopped I'm pretty sure we were ALWAYS going to keep him since we had him under control for another year and we constantly want to "try" to be competitive due to Trout.