Senor Piva

Before.  From back in the 70's, when the Angels treated the Twins like their AAA team (Bostock, Blyleven, Carew), and all my family were Twins fans.  Skipped the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.  Got interested again when I was stationed outside St Louis, as Edmonds, Eckstein and Percival got my interest, and of course when Albert signed with y'all.  Currently in Honduras, going to be stationed at Little Rock next year, so if you have questions about the Travelers, I plan on going to a lot of games.

No, my answer is to trade Trumbo/Kendrick/Aybar/Iannetta for good players.

Who?

I bet Jerome or Matt Shoemaker could toss up a 90 ERA +

Shoemaker may show promise, but if that is your answer, then welcome to 2012 and 2013 finishes

Why are we skipping the part where Lance Lynn isn't really a good pitcher?

Compared to who? Blanton, Hanson?  Who else you going to throw out there?

This I agree with.  If I were the Angels, I may try to get Kelly + Siegrist for Aybar rather than Lance Lynn.  That would be a much better haul for the Angels.

 

As a Cards fan, I'd be happy with a Lynn for Aybar swap.  Not so much if it were Kelly + Siegrist.

As a fellow fan of the Angels/Cards, have to agree with that last sentence.  Think Lynn/Kelly + Freeman should get Aybar.  If the Angels want to offer Bourjos too, then Lyons and Salas.  Two starters, two relievers.

Lynn, Tyler Lyons (LH SP), Fernando Salas (RH RP, fallen out of favor), Sam Freeman (hard throwing LH RP), and Ryan Jackson (SS, fallen out of favor with Cards as well) for Aybar and Bourjos.

Hopefully Kyle Lohse's situation last year will make Vargas inclined to take the offer, or negotiate a long term deal, rather than having the whole thing drug out like Lohse's was last year. 

Sox just trying to distract the Cards from bunting towards Papi

Cards have 8 or 9 candidates for the rotation next year.

 

Angels are better off trying to get one of them for Peter Borjous.    That could work for both sides.    Gives the Cards an upgrade over Jon Jay and the Angels a cost controlled young starter.   

Could see Lynn, maybe Salas, Freeman and Jackson for Aybar and Bourjos.  Gives Angels pitching and a spare SS plus salary relief from Aybar.  Gives the Cards something better than Kozma and Jay

Jon Jay putting on a real defensive clinic tonight.

maybe the Bourjos market isn't dead yet.

My money is on Garza.

That would officially make you a buffoon, Moreno!    Sign the age 30 (in November) guy that costs a first round pick and $20 million/year against the luxury tax; while not signing the guy from Japan who is about 5 years younger, wouldn't cost any draft picks, and would cost some $10 million/year less against the luxury tax.    

Garza's the same as Greinke was, as a mid-season pick up, he's a true free-agent.  No draft pick lost.  My money's on Bronson Arroyo, though the Reds might not be dumb enough to give him a qualifying offer.  Was a decent pitcher, but not worth another 3-4 year contract.

Sorry, but that's pretty dumb. You can't just throw young guys in a rotation and bank on them to be successful just because another club has done it. Guys like Miller, Wacha and Martinez are on a whole 'nother level than Richards and Sappington.

alright, so what's your plan?  how do you keep this team from sucking for the next 3-5 years?

long time lurker.  First (and only) Angels game was in 1977, upper deck of the third base line, vs. the Yankees.  Paul Hartzell started, was disappointed, as I wanted to see Nolan Ryan.  Grew up in the mid-west, so didn't like how the Angels got Lymon Bostock, Bert Blyleven, Rod Carew.  However, Bobby Grich was one of my favorite players, along with Doug DeCinces (grandpa was an Orioles fan), and of course, Nolan. 

Became a Cardinal fan when stationed outside StL (they'd let you in free with a military ID, and allow you to bring in soft sided coolers with drinks in plastic bottles).  Ride the train in, and you are talking $20 total for a MLB game.  Edmonds, Spiezio, Eckstein, Percival, Glaus.

Wish to see the Angels be competitive year in and year out, my favorite AL team.

They can still sign him in the offseason, but I hope they can pull something off and get a decent prospect for him. What do you think, trade him or hold on to him?

So you are going to trade a guy who is owed roughly $1.4 million for the last month, an impending free agent, for who? Who is going to give up a "decent prospect" for an impending free agent who just came back from a blood clot issue?  Bigger question is, do the Angels offer him a qualifying offer (roughly $13.5-14 million) for next year.  I say yes.  If he accepts, you have Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Richards and Sappington (Cardinals start youngsters, no reason why the Angels can't fold them into the starting lineup).  If he declines the offer and signs elsewhere, you go with Weaver, Garza, Wilson, Richards, Sappington.  Luxury tax be damned.  Club has to fix the starting pitching.  Thoughts?

Like with Lohse, would take a qualifying offer to secure a draft pick.  Was $13M/1 year for Lohse, probably be a bit more.  Here's the list of potential free agent starting pitchers, as per Baseball Prospectus (asterisk means there's a club option for 2014)

Starting Pitchers
Bronson Arroyo
Scott Baker
Erik Bedard
Nick Blackburn *
A.J. Burnett
Chris Capuano *
Chris Carpenter
Bruce Chen
Bartolo Colon
Aaron Cook
Jorge De La Rosa
Scott Feldman
Gavin Floyd
Jeff Francis
Armando Galarraga
Jon Garland
Matt Garza
Roy Halladay *
Jason Hammel
Aaron Harang *
Rich Harden
Dan Haren
Roberto Hernandez
Tim Hudson
Phil Hughes
Ubaldo Jimenez *
Josh Johnson
Jeff Karstens
Hiroki Kuroda
John Lannan
Jon Lester *
Colby Lewis
Ted Lilly
Tim Lincecum
Derek Lowe
Paul Maholm
Shaun Marcum
Jason Marquis
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Brett Myers *
Ricky Nolasco
Mike Pelfrey
Andy Pettitte
Wandy Rodriguez *
Jonathan Sanchez
Ervin Santana
Johan Santana *
Joe Saunders *
James Shields *
Tim Stauffer
Jason Vargas
Ryan Vogelsong *
Edinson Volquez
Tsuyoshi Wada *
Chien-Ming Wang
Chris Young
Barry Zito
 

Coello just threw a nasty pitch, this kid, so far has looked good. Real small sample size, but he goes after hitters and doesn't doink around.

Give Butcher time, he'll fix that

Yes.  We have a lot of large guys.

yeah, but they'll swing and miss

don't make me bump the thread from a week ago when I said Trumbo was our best trade chip and almost everyone said he should be untouchable.

Am sure I'll be crucified for this, let's say the Angels could get a Herschel Walker-type haul for Trout, would you?  If they could fix the starting pitching and the bullpen tomorrow, would you? Or is the next 3-5 years of a minor league rebuild ok as long as he stays on the team?  Fire away...

b ).  dammit

not sure why it switched a to the emoticon.  sorry

Think the problem was they:

a) didn't understand how the new CBA worked, thinking it was like previous years, where they would get a draft pick.  or

they overestimated their likihood of being able to re-sign Greinke. 

Either way, seems like they didn't do their homework.  With 20/20 hindsight, would have required an extension before giving up someone of Segura's ability, if even for a year

Doesn't make either of us feel any better but, it's not your fault it's a mess in the first place.

 

One of the things that bugged me about not acquiring pitching was the reality that the market isnt any better next year.   Ervin and Matt (Mr Glass) Garza may be the best options out there...   Paul Maholm maybe too.

I just don't want the team to turn into the Cubs, thinking they have to cut payroll until they get the farm system re-built.  Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Richards and maybe Williams, could be a decent 1-5.  But then you sacrifice the bullpen...

Arroyo, Nolasco are the Nutri System version of Blanton.  If the goal is to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic then yes, acquire those two.

I got nothing else to improve the starting rotation...

There's not really anything to do at this point that will be enough.

 

The last thing they need to do at this point is trade more prospects in ill advised attempts to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Just the opposite: they need to trade for prospects.  Blanton, Aybar (just because he may actually get some return, vs. Blanton who may bring a bucket of balls).  Maybe Trumbo, maybe Callaspo.  Anything that can bring some prospects and/or bullpen help, and try to bring in 1 or 2 starters next year (Arroyo/Nolasco/anyone not Blanton)

I was stationed outside of St Louis for 5 years, so went to a lot of Cards games.  Best comparison I can think of, is if Tim Salmon had left the Angels in say, 2000 or even after 2002.  Best player most fans had seen live, homegrown guy, face of the franchise.

I tell people, Pujols leaving is kinda like an ex-wife leaving.  You know you are better off without her, but you wonder why she didn't want you.