AngelsSurfer

At this point releasing him might be the kindest and least stressful way to end this. Yes, they will eat the contract, but it frees up a team spot and gets rid of a distraction.

I have to think that this will be an issue of contention when the next round of MLBPA contract negotiations comes up. There has to be some happy medium between letting a team owner have free rein and leaving absolutely zero recourse for a team to fire a player for cause.

Oy, Salas. That didn't go well...

Sounds like this method of transportation is only convenient for Angel games.  I dont think I would ever trust it in any other situation because it could close and id end up getting stuck.

I wouldn't rely on the night trains if they weren't the Angels Express, no. And I wouldn't rely on the Angels Express unless I were going to an Angels game, personally, since it's really engineered just for that. I think they have a geunine interest in getting people to use mass transit more, so they want to make sure the AE is as convenient and reliable as possible.

Having said that, Amtrak is always reliable too, in my experience. There's no AE on the weekend and Metrolink only runs a few trains to the OC, but there are a lot of Amtrak trains all day long, so I use that to get back to LA from weekend games

I wonder if they didn't say anything about the "specific language" up until now because they were trying to support Hamilton and inspire confidence in him? When they signed him, if they'd publicly said "well, we have this clause that will bounce him if he screws up again." it would have sounded as though they were already doubting his ability to stay on the wagon, which would have made the signing seem even more foolhardy. But it would have made sense for them to quietly add their own agreement in the contract.

As to getting rid of him at all - it seems as though it would be best for all involved. They clearly don't want him. Playing for a team where the management doesn't want him and the fans boo him isn't emotionally good for any player, much less someone with problems with healthy coping mechanisms. And it seems absurd to me that there's no recourse to fire a player if it's clearly not working out like this. In the real world people can be fired for being sick or having a baby (FMLA only applies for 12 weeks and doesn't protect all employees) and have very little job protection but in a case like this, the guy's protected 100%?

Wow. It does make me curious as to what has actually gone down with Hamilton that has inspired this sort of vehement response from management .On the other hand...did anyone ever expect this situation to go quietly into the night?

I'm staying well away from the political debate here, but the Padres' actions to take care of this player are extremely compassionate and classy. Much respect to them for that.

That sounds reasonable.  Is that just for Angels games or for Ducks games too?

Just for the Angels. If you were going to a Ducks game you'd probably be able to get there on one of the commuter Metrolink trains but you'd have to go back on Amtrak. If there were an Angels game the same night you *could* ostensibly still do the Angels Express. Since the outbound train departure is linked to the last out, though, you'd have to keep an eye on the Angels game in real time so you'd know when to get back to the station. The conductors check for your train ticket, but they don't ask to see your *game* tickets.

Same holds true for a show at the Grove, I guess, if it were happening the same night as an Angels game - you could go there on the AE and keep an eye on the game so you would know when to head back to the station.

The Dalai Lama is doing an event at the Honda Center in July and it will be interesting to see if they set up any sort of express service for that. I hope so. Metrolink service on the weekend for the OC really sucks. Otherwise, at least it's at noon, and Amtrak runs all day, so that will work.

it's not an aversion, Surfer. It's the fact that mass transit in socal just sucks

Sad but true. I will say that from what I've seen of OCTA, it must be really hard to live in the OC without a car. I think LA in particular is working on this, though. They're putting in a bunch of new rail lines and a lot of events/attractions now have special transit services. I've been able to get just about everywhere---Disneyland, the Hollywood Bowl, the county fairs, etc, without much difficulty because they all have shuttles or special train service.

oh ok. That's cool. I was thinking you were in the IE since you seemed bummed about this news. Was going to say if you were close by, and we happened to be going to the same game, i could help you out with a ride.

Thanks very much. I appreciate that! When I heard the news I wasn't sure if this also affected the OC line because I kept reading IE/OC.

do you go alone? where do you live?

Los Angeles. Sometimes I'm on my own, sometimes with friends, but either way we always end up doing the train.

No, the Angels Express leaves 30 minutes after the last out or at 11:30, whichever comes first. The last train of the night is an Amtrak at 11:04, aside from that. So even if a 7 o'clock game ends up going four hours, you're going to get a train.

They're generally pretty good about making sure people don't get stranded. There was one time last season where the train had an issue and wasn't going to get there. The Metrolink people went up and down the platforms to find out where everyone was going, and then they arranged for all of us to take the next Amtrak free of charge. And the Amtrak did the local stops that are usually skipped so everyone could get home.

I've never understood the aversion to mass transit. The Angels Express is smart, there's no traffic and you can drink at the game.

...or those of us who have medical issues and can't drive.

Well, that sucks.

I'm supposed to go to the stadium on Saturday for the 5K and the game. I really hope the trains are fully back online (regular Amtrak/Metrolink) because otherwise I'm not going to be able to get there.

Calhoun's one of my favorite players too, and it's nice to see him getting some positive mentions in the media. He seems to be overlooked a lot in the press. Ianetta's observations were really perceptive.

You were worried about, what, 8 innings in spring training?

Seriously, you guys really need to just ignore spring training.

If you read the thread I actually was one of the people saying I *wasn't* worried about spring training. But he seemed noticably different at this game. And it's really not a stretch to think that handling contract negotiatons that will determine his employment for the next four seasons might be stressful.

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

The response would be very different - we all know that, I think.

The thing is, though, I think if it were a player who had a low batting average, but was liked by fans, the response would also be very different. If someone like John McDonald, for instance, had been in this spot, I tend to think people still would have rallied for him because he was such a beloved player.

I think the ire directed toward Hamilton isn't so much about a single use of cocaine as it is about how it seems to tie in with his overall attitude. His performance and his comments in the press have made it very much seem that he doesn't give a shit and that he's just coasting. Whether that is true or not, that's how he's coming across to the general public. Even BEFORE this, people didn't like him too much. From all outward appearances it seems that there's a player who has a bad attitude who is getting over on the Angels. He's getting paid a lot, he's taking a valuable roster spot that might be better used by other players, and he's doing absolutely nothing on the field to help the team. And with this decision he's seemed to get over on everyone again.

So is the response different because of who Hamilton is? Absolutely, but I'd also suggest that he's not done anything on or off the field to endear himself to fans, so this is a problem that is somewhat of his own making.

Since it was just announced that he's hired someone to negotiate his extension with the Angels, and he's back to 2014 brilliance, I have to wonder if that was what was stressing him out this spring training. Now he's not worried about it because someone else is doing the heavy lifting.

Guby mentioned that the clock might be aiding CJ, that he can't overthink as much any more.

This was 2010-2011 and 2013 CJ.

That would actually make perfect sense. He just has to get the sign and GO now.

Should there have been some major fallout for Hamilton? Yes. We're totally on the same page there. I'm not okay with his actions and I'm not okay with the decision that was made.

MLB wanted him punished; Manfred said as much when he said he didn't agree with the decision. Hamilton's team clearly wanted him to be punished or held accountable. NOBODY wanted to baby him there, and the fact that MLB had previously suspended him for two years really does show they weren't playing with this shit. The loophole in this case was not that he was not accountable but that he HAD accounted for his drug use and told them, and that was decided by a single person, the arbitrator. Again, I don't agree with it. However, I think the outrage perhaps needs to be directed toward the contract, the loophole, the aribtrator that found the loophole and the entire way the collective bargaining agreement does not allow a team to discipline a player like this.

I don't understand the way some pundits in the media are addressing this, no. I don't know, however, if it's as much that they're saying "he should be babied" as that they're saying that the Angels should have kept their mouths shut and dealt with this confidentially. If we think of it, I can understand that perspective - if a player came to them with another illness, such as diabetes or cancer, they wouldn't be in the press about this. HOWEVER, the rub is that the player broke a contract stipulation, and that is not normally kept confidential.

In terms of the law - Hamilton would have been in Texas when he did this, not California. California cannot charge him with a crime for something that happened in Texas. Also, with the way drug laws work in general, it's about possession or sales and the supply chain, not use. If Hamilton had been caught with a bag of coke in his pocket and they'd chosen not to prosecute it, it would be an issue but it's very rare for someone, famous or not, to be charged with *using* a controlled substance.

After the way he played last year could anyone be faulted for being skeptical?

He is not in AA and he is not going to have to go to rehab.

Not the point. The point is that the whole perspective some have here, that recognizing addiction as a disease absolves him of responsibility or a requirement to make amends, is actually null and void. Real recovery and addiction management doesn't support that at all.

I really think he will rise to the occasion if they give him a chance. I hope they do.

^^^I can't state this enough; he is an addict and has a disease so that gives him immunity from having to apologize. He is basically untouchable.

That keeps being said and while it's proving to be the case in the media right now, it's not actually true. If Josh actually WERE in recovery an apology would be forthcoming. These are Steps 1, 8 and 9 of the Twelve Steps used in Narcotics and Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
3. We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

totally agree and understand that opinion, but im kind of with chuck on this one. It would be nice if every player was great with fans, but to be fair, im sure those guys (especially the big named ones) get hit up constantly by people to sign. After awhile im sure that gets very old.

End of the day, remember, you and i arent paying them. Arte is. We're paying arte. They dont 'work for us'. Just to be clear, i wish theyd be more approachable, but i understand why a lot of them arent.

ITA. I think it's wonderful when the players are "fan-friendly" and take the time to talk and sign autographs - when they're nice, they're giving the fans a memorable experience that they will cherish for a long time. I appreciate the meet and greet sorts of events where the players sign at a table, which are set up to be positive experiences for both the players and the fans.

A friend of mine is in a professional where she is asked for autographs a lot, and she's told me that people have gotten angry and started insulting her because she wanted to sign one item, not ten. Or they've been very forward or creepy. The professional autograph hounds who just want to sell stuff on eBay come back again and again. Unfortunately the players probably deal with that sort of crap too, and I can understand how it would make them pull back. Plus. everyone has days where they're not as friendly because they're just not feeling good or have something important on their mind.

And there are other people who are "fan friendly" and always stop and sign, but are absolutely miserable, evil dicks to the people they work with. - so the fact that someone signs doesn't mean they're nice at all.

With players like Albert, I think the proof is in the overall analysis what they do. By all accounts Albert's a great teammate and a good guy off the field. That's what it's about.

totally agree and understand that opinion, but im kind of with chuck on this one. It would be nice if every player was great with fans, but to be fair, im sure those guys (especially the big named ones) get hit up constantly by people to sign. After awhile im sure that gets very old.

End of the day, remember, you and i arent paying them. Arte is. We're paying arte. They dont 'work for us'. Just to be clear, i wish theyd be more approachable, but i understand why a lot of them arent.

ITA. I think it's wonderful when the players are "fan-friendly" and take the time to talk and sign autographs - when they're nice, they're giving the fans a memorable experience that they will cherish for a long time. I appreciate the meet and greet sorts of events where the players sign at a table, which are set up to be positive experiences for both the players and the fans.

A friend of mine is in a profession where she is recognized and asked for autographs a lot, and she's told me that people have gotten angry and started insulting her because she wanted to sign one item for each person, and not ten. Or they've been very forward or creepy. The professional autograph hounds who just want to sell stuff on eBay come back again and again. Unfortunately the players probably deal with that sort of crap too, and I can understand how it would make them pull back. Plus, everyone has days where they're not as friendly because they're just not feeling good or have something important on their mind.

And there are other people who are "fan friendly" and always stop and sign, but are absolutely miserable, evil dicks to the people they work with.

With players like Albert, I think the proof is in the overall analysis what they do. By all accounts Albert's a great teammate and a good guy off the field. That's what it's about.