Dave Saltzer

What do you do with Cron? And, at this point, they are very high on Calhoun (as is almost every team, so I do believe he's going to get a good payday when he's a FA and may receive offers enough to lure him away so we may not get the final say on this). I know Cespedes posted a very good year, but I'm still a little bit leary of signing him to a mega deal.

No, they wouldn't. But, if Cespedes wants a 5-6 year deal with no opt-outs, that could block Jones, and that could be problematic.

I almost wanted to tell him that some guy on AngelsWin.com wrote an article suggesting a trade for Gardner. In discussing LF, Eppler said that he would look for a guy who can cover more ground here over power. Between that, and his praise for Jam Jones, I was very much thinking how Gardner would be a great fit. They could even decline the option on Escobar, possibly move Marte to 3B, and use the money to get the 1 or 2 arms for the rotation and BP and improve 2B.

One of the interesting things was his phrase for signing a FA player. He kept saying how he wanted to "take down a player for LF" or "take him down". It was funny and interesting to hear him refer to it much like a game for him as the GM. He briefly talked about how he sells a player on signing with the team (location, weather, clubhouse, being upfront and clear about his role, and some proprietary things he doesn't want the competition to know). The best question of the night was asked by a fan named Tim Mead, sitting next to him. Tim asked him (after Eppler had gone on for a bit about his job as GM is to evaluate everything) "How would you evaluate your performance in your first year?" Gotta love that fan. Great question!

Last night, a couple of hundred season ticketholders gathered to hear Billy Eppler talk about the 2016 season and looking ahead to the 2017 season. Considering the limitations on what he could and could not say, he actually said quite a bit. I'd like this thread to be an area where those who attended share some of his comments from the evening. Several of the highlights I recalled was him saying that he wants to get 1 or 2 starting pitchers from outside of the organization. He seemed to stress two pitchers, implying FA as a method. He said that he has told Alex Meyer that he will have to battle for a spot in the rotation. He absolutely intends to fix LF and 2B. He appeared to rule out getting Wieters but may want a more defensive catcher. He said would he like to get a catcher who can hit 20 HRs? Sure, but is that the best thing? No. he wants a catcher to cut down on runs scored. He wants more OB%. He talked about this quite a bit. He pointed out the park effects on building the team (108 games that we will play at home and on the road at least will be played in pitcher friendly parks), so he said he's less inclined to get a 10-15 HR guy because their numbers will drop and that "you [fans] will kill me for the drop in production". He said getting a 25 HR guy makes sense because they have "thunder in the bat" and that their numbers won't drop. But he also said we have several guys who can do that. He said they haven't yet decided whether to exercise Escobar's option. But, also said that he has provided the best leadoff player for the organization since Chone Figgins. I found this a bit surprising, although it could still be because the WS is still not over, so that could be a factor. Marte will not be the LFer next year, but that he will get his ABs around the infield. He told a funny story about learning that Marte was going to play LF. In his mind, Eppler was thinking where, in Fenway? He said that all of the coaching staff will return. He talked about his relationship with Scioscia and how he spends more time than other Angels GMs have in the clubhouse to get the pulse of the team. He's usually in the clubhouse from 2:00-3:30 and again immediately after the game. He said after every game he lets Scioscia get off his chest whatever he needs to and then talks to him about in-game decisions the next day to give him to cool down. He said he learned that skill in NY. He spoke very highly of Jam Jones. So much so, that I'd have to say that in thinking about LF, that has to be part of the equation. He said it should be easier to fill the hole in LF over 2B because it's easier to move a RFer over to LF than it is to make a 2B. And, there are more options for the OF. He talked about new departments that he's created, looking at biomechanics to try and cut down on injuries and improving performance. Same with stats. He's also looking into the brain research to learn more about how a player makes a decision to swing or not swing (is it vision? where is he looking? what part of the plate is he covering? etc.). They have hired a full-time person to head a new department of biomechanics. Shoemaker is doing well and is scheduled for another CAT scan. He should be getting those every 8 weeks, but should be all good for Spring Training. He talked about Pujols, keeping him healthy, especially as he ages, and the toll playing the infield takes on the body. He said on a couple of occasions getting 1 or 2 arms for the bullpen. He talked about rebuilding the farm. To do so, he wants to hoarde talent, which means taking as many waiver claims as they can. He wants to spend all of their bonus money up to the point of losing picks (he said the Angels have never done that before). This applies for Latin America and for domestic players. We will pay the tax for going over, and will spend from now on up to the edge of our limits. He discussed having all the improved data in all of their minor league parks which has been incorporated with minor league players. He told his getting more juice out of the orange analogy. He also talked about new training regimens for players, particularly pitchers. He wants more of a system in place with more internal candidates being groomed (even for a future GM role) so that there is a similar philosophy from top to bottom. He talked about hiring Matt Swanson to be the new Director of Scouting. He talked about Swanson's ability to grow a department and a team organically. Eppler had high praise for him and the organization that he came from, but said the deciding factor for him was his ability to grow the organization organically. He wants to have a line of prospects in development to be playing the same way. In terms of pitchers, he prefers guys who get strikeouts because those are the only sure outs in a game (I almost wanted to remind him Pierzynski and the playoffs). I think this leans heavily towards Hellickson as a top target. In response to a direct question, he spoke very highly of a prospect named David Fletcher, who he hopes in the best case becomes a starting 2B (he plays SS, and as Eppler said "we have a pretty good SS already"). Worst case, he will still make the Majors. Called him a real gamer. He really did not speak highly of Baldoquin. In response to a question about him, he said "We still have him . . . he's still figuring his way out right now." All in all, it was a good event. I'm glad that they are doing these, as they do need to be more visible and approachable by fans. If anyone else was there and has more insights or things I missed, please add them to the discussion.

A great idea, but I think they really want to get younger and form another nucleus like they had in the late 90s to develop together. So, i don't see them wanting to give up such a good prospect just to jettison Ellbury's contract. Which one would you take if you could pick one to offset the trade?

Most likely they would, but his contract is longer (signed through 2020 with an option to buy out), more money tied up, and his production isn't potentially as good. I don't want LF tied up forever. They'd have to pay a lot more money to move Ellsbury, and I don't see them wanting to do that.

I don't think Gardner and his contract have the value that the Yankees are paying either. But, this is a case where they could improve through subtraction (both in salary and opening up a position), and probably might be willing to make a move similar to what I'm proposing so that they can fulfill other goals. They can easily replicate what they are getting from Gardner and Refsnyder internally (sadly they'd be a big improvement for us), shed payroll, stay under the luxury tax, and fill their other needs. We may have to fine-tune the details a bit, but, it's an idea of an interesting target for us to consider.

They are comfortable for his option at 3B as far as I can tell. They aren't going to get a much better combination at that position for his cost (if only we had offered Beltre the 6th year guaranteed that he wanted to sign with us--imagine how much better we would have been!). As for his defense at 2B, they'd point to his lack of instincts, footwork, and glove work to safely man 2B.

My bet is that Jones opens the season at IE (High A) and goes to AA by the middle of the season. Hermosillo will start in AA. While it's a long ways to the majors, guys who get on base and have speed tend to make it more than guys who don't. Their skills don't tend to drop as much from level to level. Both are young and still likely to grow in their skill sets quite a bit. I know that the Angels are very high on Jones and I'm a bit more optimistic about Hermosillo than other national observers.

I cannot in any way see Scioscia and the front office letting Escobar play 2B. His defense is barely tolerable at times at 3B, and at 2B, would cost the team too many wins.

The risk is offset by adding Refsnyder (and the risk back to them is offset with Alcantara). Even if he slips a little more (which I doubt since he's still 32, will be hitting in front of Trout and Pujols and has maintained his OB skills even if his power dropped a bit), he'd still be a big upgrade offensively for us. And, most importantly, he only has 2 years guaranteed left, so we're off the hook in 2 years, or we can pick up the option if it is worth it.

I don't want to tie up the dollars and years it would take to land Cespedes when we have Jones and Hermosillo in the pipeline (I believe Hermosillo is underrated by many). Gardner fits our timeline and allows us to use money to shore up other problems. I don't think we have the talent to land Braun. As for Puig, the Dodgers have a huge problem. They want teams to pay what he's worth for his potential talent, not what his actual talent has been, and won't deduct anything for his serious clubhouse issues. I've talked with several scouts who have said that the Dodgers are unrealistic in what they want for him. Until they drop their price, it will be nearly impossible to move him according to what I've been told. I've also been told if they really wanted to move him, they could have at several points, and chose not too. I really doubt that they would trade him across town to us.

Last year was a down year for Gardner and he posted a .261/.351/.362 slash line. How much better would that be than what we've seen since 2013?

I agree. I want Marte to get around 250-300 ABs and maybe become a replacement at 3B. If he's really killing it again, we could consider moving him to 1B and trading Cron, but I'm not ready to make that call right now.

I agree, I'm a bit higher on Rodriguez because I saw him in the minors, thought he'd have more power, and he finally showed it this year, swinging like he did in the minors. I've read some articles on him saying that he went back to his original swing (which the Angels changed--which could make it harder to sign him), and he rediscovered the power this year. But, your options are fine and in many ways, they place an upper limit on how much we should pay for any of these 2B players. Of the two, I'd prefer Coghlan, but you raise good ideas as well.

I would want both Bailey and Chacin back, in that order. I get what people are saying about Hellickson, but, we need more pitching depth. Remember, after next year, Nolasco is gone, so Tropeano and/or Heaney already will be needed. Meyer could stay in the pen. And, we always will need an extra few arms, so, I'd rather have Hellickson at a reasonable deal (I think 4/$64 is fair and reasonable). We just have so many questions about our pitching that I'd rather have too much over too little.

1) That's why I thought Refsnyder and Gardner might be the better combo. The Yankees have much better internal and external options to replace both, and rather than giving up salary, which might hamper their ability to pursue a high-end bullpen piece, they'd rather give up pieces to get more salary relief. I agree talent wise, it's not a fair trade. But, throw in the salary relief that they will get, and we may have the workings of a deal. 2) Agree that there is a ceiling of where I'd go regarding Hellickson, but, if we could get him at 4/$64, I'd do it. 3) Again, agree that all things have an upper price limit. However, we need to solve 2B for the foreseeable future, so, we need someone for 3-4 years at that position. 4) Bullpens have so many variables that it is hard to determine what would be the best fit. But, we need to throw money at the problem.

We could put Meyer in the pen at first and Skaggs in the rotation. I just figured we'd still need some surplus pitching, and with all the injuries, would like Hellickson as well as Skaggs and Meyer. I know that Hellickson is a #3 type pitcher, but there aren't any better FA options and we don't have the talent on the farm to swing a deal for a better pitcher. Even with Hellickson, I'd also pursue some other pickups to have the depth. I don't want to go through another season wondering if we can even get anyone to throw the ball across the plate. We need more depth and versatility.

Okay folks, take this for what it is. It's an early look at a different way to rebuild the Angels this offseason. We all know the needs and the limitations. We can't solve all of our problems with money, and even if we could, the talent just isn't there to buy. We are going to have to be creative, and, we are going to have to accept some limitations if we are going to make the team better overall. It's been a while since I've been writing, and I'm trying to ease my way back into it, but I thought I'd put something on here to start the discussion going forward. So, here are some thoughts I've had. I get it that I will be criticized for some of the trades (not necessarily working out), but I'd at least suggest them. And, we can argue about the money a bit more later. First Move: Trade Mike Morin and Victor Alcantara to the Yankees for Bret Gardner and Rob Refsnyder. Why we'd do it: It solves left field and gives us a starting point for second base. Gardner can leadoff, Escobar drops to second, and Trout now has a much better chance to hit with more runners on base. More importantly, Gardner's contract is for 2 more years, at which point Jones or Hermosillo should be ready to take over the position. If they need a little more seasoning, Gardner's contract has an option for 2019, which we could easily exercise. In a pinch, Gardner could play CF to give Trout a day off. As for Refsnyder, the scouting reports on his defense at 2B are mixed, but I will be honest, mostly not good. I haven't seen him play there enough to really comment on it. He's young, so maybe he can be improved with reps. I don't expect him to be elite, but if he can be average, that would be a step up from what we've had, especially if he can produce offensively (his bat is supposed to be worth it). Plus, with a subsequent move (see below), I will be able to limit his defensive liabilities if they can't be overcome through improvement. He wouldn't be my starter, but, he should get between 200-300 ABs over the course of a season. And, for those who want to harp on Refsnyder's defensive limits, I have to ask how many of you would be willing to try converting Cowart into a 2B? If you are comfortable with him manning the position, I think Refsnyder would be at least as good at 2B as Cowart, if not better defensively. Why the Yankees would do it: They want to shed some salary and need to add some power to their lineup. They have several OF prospects who could easily replace Gardner, or they could go after a more elite OFer with power to replace him. They need bullpen help (as do we, and I know, we're trading away bullpen assets--but we need LF and 2B help more, and bullpen arms might be easier to find than those positions). Yes, I get it that they'd say that it's not fair value, but Gardner is coming off a down year, Refsnyder essentially has no home in their lineup (he's blocked at both 2B and the OF), so, they may be happy to shed payroll to improve elsewhere. Alcantra and Morin both have upside, and could easily bolster a major league pen in the long run. Yankees fans might not be happy with the move initially, but when they get a big splash somewhere else, they probably will forget about the trade very quickly. They need to shed payroll and get younger if they want to become again. They won't get fair value without eating salary, and I think they'd rather have the payroll flexibility than get fair value back for these two players. Second Move: Sign Jeremy Hellickson. The Angels have the highest protected pick this year. We need to utilize the security that it provides. Of the top free agent pitchers this year, the one I'd pursue, and the one I think Eppler will pursue is Hellickson. I think he can be had for the most reasonable deal in terms of dollars and years (Rich Hill may be a shorter deal, but more dollars and more risk due to his age). I could be wrong on this, as most teams may want to jump in on him, but, he would be my preferred choice. At some point, I'd walk away from the deal and pursue Nova, but would much prefer to sign Hellickson because he has a better track record. Third Move: Sign Sean Rodriguez to Play 2B. I always like Rodriguez as an Angels prospect and always thought that he would produce some power. And, I've always liked how flexible Rodriguez has been defensively. The Angels will need to get more overlap out of their roster so that one injury doesn't become too critical. We have no depth at 2B anywhere near ready. With Rodriguez and Refsnyder, we'd have some backup. Plus, he can also play 3B, OF, and 1B in a pinch. Look at how much losing Cron hurt the team last season. Not that it was the reason why the team was so bad, but, it certainly didn't help. With a roster of Rodriguez, Marte, Pennington, and Cowart, we'd have much more flexibility around the entire infield and wouldn't have such a tremendous drop in production if an injury occurs. Fourth Move: Spend all Remaining Money on Boosting the Bullpen. Most likely, Street and Bedrosian will return next year fully healthy to form a nice end to the bullpen. But, the 6th and 7th innings could sure use some help, especially, if Morin is traded. While I think Middleton could be ready for a role in the pen by the end of the season, we need more help now. We can argue about which arms to pursue, and I'll let plenty of people discuss that. I will trust the FO to try and get the most out of the remaining funds. Since a lot of that will depend on how much we spend based on the three previous moves, it's a bit difficult to speculate these moves. Conclusion Overall, I think all of these moves are affordable for the Angels this offseason. Sure, we might have to add a little more to get the trade done with the Yankees, but I think it's a good start on the idea. They aren't totally dealing from a position of strength (as mentioned, Gardner did have a down year--even though he still got on base well), and Refsnyder is blocked. They can't add too much payroll, and would be better off shedding some payroll. I believe that these moves fit with most of Eppler's comments about still wanting to improve getting on base and his familiarity with players from the AL East. It would definitely make the Angels an improved team, one that would be far more competitive than last year's team. Proposed New Rotation Richards Hellickson Shoemaker Nolasco Meyer Proposed New Lineup 1. Gardner, LF (L) 2. Escobar, 3B (R) 3. Trout, CF (R) 4. Pujols, DH (R) 5. Calhoun, RF (L) 6. Cron, 1B (R) 7. Bandy, C (R) 8. Rodriguez, 2B (R) 9. Simmons, SS (R)

There are others, but here's another that I'm keeping track of, and will be posting an interview I did with . . . Jonah Wesely. There are several others.

Thanks. Everyone should listen to this as he gives a good analysis of several of out top draft picks this year who had already moved on by the time I got there. They weren't being challenged enough in Orem (players like Thaiss, Justus, and Zimmerman). I encourage everyone to watch this interview.

He's been one of my sleeper prospects for a while. I was heading out to catch him for an interview today, but got held up and won't be able to make it before the game. I will try to get there on Saturday to get an interview with him. Anyone interested in meeting up? Alex Meyer is scheduled to start the game as well.

Jamai Jones is coming up in a little bit. Nick Flair, Nate Bertness, Sam Pastrone, Jonah Wesely, and Jose Rojas. All definitely worth getting to know as future players.

Seeing how many of the Angels players were able to identify the song, why not "Dancing Queen"? Or, for an aging veteran" Glory Days". And, my friend Kevin's suggestion "Do You Really Want To Hurt Me?". That would take some big cajones to walk out to Culture Club.