DCAngelsFan

Remind me again how much money the Angels are paying him to "give back to the game?"

3 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Dana is a beast.  Didn't realize he was that big.  

3 hours ago, TroutField said:

Gross. 

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

As of right now every single owner doesn’t like the idea of adding him. 

True. 

But my point is that Arte's personal vibes haven't served the team well in the past - and he needs to stay the eff away from personnel decisions.  Leave that to the GM, the manager, and even the players.  

On 2/23/2024 at 3:23 PM, tdawg87 said:

I guess the only thing we won't know about is if Perry asked Trout and other players if they'd welcome Bauer into the clubhouse. Maybe they said no? Maybe it was mixed. Who knows. 

If the clubhouse doesn't want a guy in said clubhouse then 

Really, that's the only question worth asking - if Washington and/or the players don't want him, it's a dead horse.  They have to live with him for 162, we don't - they get the full veto - I respect that.  

Sure, he's an ass - but newsflash, a *lot* of professional athletes are asses.  

But If the staff and players are ok with him, under whatever conditions, and think he can help them win, and is willing to sign up to some rules of conduct, sign him.

And cut him the instant he acts out.

But if this is just Arte saying "no" 'cause he doesn't like him, I can only say, once again, gfy.  This isn't Hamilton, who cratered the team with an expensive long-term deal.  

On 5/9/2023 at 5:15 PM, Revad said:

Sort of makes me think of a giant greenhouse.  

What an awesome experience, it'll be 120 degrees, 100% humidity, reek of alcohol flop-sweat (Nashville is worse than Vegas for binge-drinking) and BO, and you just know that someday, someone will be crushed by a falling sheet of polycarbonate ... 

Nashville is "next" but needs to find a better architect.  

Interesting to me is the use of the term "trained" with regards to the model.

Applying machine learning in this way is a way to understand "what" happened - but it's a very short step to using models in real-time to make predictive pitch selections - factoring/weighting what the pitcher is good at (that day), what the hitter is bad at, against all pitchers, similar pitchers, and this pitcher, weighing count, pitch sequence, time of day, game situation, his bat speed today, what the last pitch was/result, what the desired outcome is (strikeout, popup, ground ball), what he had for breakfast - so, not static pitch charts, but real-time. 

If it's not being done yet, it will be soon.  

Sure, the Luddites will roll their eyes, but this will increasingly be an advantage to those that make use of it, "increasingly" as the models get better, and are fed more data.  

16 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

...

Daniel was found to have lied to the players - he offered them less money than had been actually authorized to them, essentially pocketing the difference. That very BIG difference is what hurt the Angels.  Where the common thought process in the DR and Venezuela at the time was that kick-backs, either to scouts or buscones (who cut deals with scouts), was part of the "cost of doing business", what Daniel did (mostly in Venezuela), was flat out steal from the players.

Thats why the Angels suffered aferwards.  They were labeled as crooks and untrustworthy in a part of baseball world where gaining a player's trust is vital and the first step in the process -- they were essentially blackballed.  Players wouldn't even TALK to the Angels guys for a long time and buscones basically steered everyone away from them since they felt THEY had been cheated even more given they tended to take a huge portion of the player's bonuses as part of their "expenses" for housing/training them.

Yes they essentially gave up and stayed out of the market, but it was 100% a response to how they were viewed immediately after the BS went down.

I recall that's what he did, and I remember wondering at the time if the team "made good" on what he stole (or even could we?)

I know it's a little naive, but I just felt like the right thing for the club in the aftermath would be to pay back what he stole, and to do some public works to help repair our image, like open a new academy or something like.

So, I guess my question is, did we do anything like that?  Or did we just tuck tail and run?

https://x.com/BACHMAN_SZN/status/1744469803132440749?s=20

14 hours ago, Tank said:

once again, i find it oddly curious how many here think the angels are an appealing team to any free agents of note.

"how come arte is so cheap? why didn't arte sign xxxxxx?"

players have to want to come here. right now, they don't. 

we're not signing anyone of note this year. probably not next year, either (unless there's a dramatic turnaround in how the team plays this year). 

This is part of the blowback from Ohtani leaving.

When we had Ohtani and Trout, that was the most attractive time for an FA to come to the Angels.  If there was ever a time to go all-in, it was before the 2022 season.  

Now, Ohtani's left, which speaks volumes to every other FA - did you really think Yamamoto or Imanaga was going to go to the no-hope team that couldn't keep Ohtani?  They have their pride - no one wants some other guy's reject.     

We're pretty much a place to get a paycheck when a top-tier team doesn't want you.

There are stories about how the Braves and the Dodgers orgs are great places to play, while the Angels is kind of a "meh" place to play - they take care of their players and their families in ways large and small, while we have stories about starving minor leaguers sleeping in their cars.

The story pretty much says everything to me

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-04-29/dodgers-owner-anniversary-kasten-magic-mark-walter-colletti-mattingly-kershaw

Arte could've lured away every Dodger scout and development guy with McCourt in charge - I said so at the time.  He could've bought their development system at fire sale prices.  

Arte's not cheap - he's just an idiot in what he spends his money on. 

He's the guy who spends $4000 on custom rims to put on his 1998 Honda Civic with rust spots and a bad transmission.  

I was a bit cynical coming into this story, but gotta be impressed with a guy who's come so far on his own - I mean, who gets TJ on their own? 

I really hope this works out for him - and for the team - I think we both could use a win  

At the time, in order (as best as I can remember these):

Vladimir Guerrero - he was such a criminally underrated talent, I was psyched we did it, since it appeared we weren't even trying.

Shohei Ohtani - so pleased he chose us - said maybe the franchise was going in the right direction ...

Rod Carew - I always loved Carew, unconventional and classy, and was happy to see him come over

Fred Lynn - Limited by injuries, he still did well for us.

Torii Hunter - Hunter was always such a pleasure to watch with the Twins and a great personality 

Reggie Jackson - Felt over-the-hill, but I under-estimated him he still had some gas in the tank  And still, he was Reggie so ...

Zack Grienke - thought we gave up too much for him, but ...

Bartolo Colon - between him and Vlad, thought we were building something

Bobby Grich 

Mark Teixeira - never much liked him for some reason, but liked his production.  Hated him again when he left.

Bartolo Colon - between him and Vlad, thought we were building something 

Mo Vaughn 

Dan Haren - just felt like the right deal but at the wrong time

Mark Langston 

Nolan Ryan - my memory is kind of fuzzy, here - we gave up a lot for him (I thought) and he sounded intriguing but no more - he quickly became the most interesting player on the team)

Anthony Rendon - always had bad vibes about him - living near DC, it was clear to me the club had reservations about him, people should've loved him - but they didn't

Albert Pujols - Cardinals fans did a great job of pointing out his quickly declining production before the signing, and I didn't like it.   I figured we'd get 3 or 4 good years out of him, then years of regret- turns out that was optimistic - I knew his contract would cripple the team, and the Cardinals seeming so relieved he declined their offer never set well with me  

Josh Hamilton - Criminal stupidity - weirdly, his stats don't suggest he was a bad player, but I thought he was overrated

Adding:

GMJ - The best thing about the GMJ signing was the discovery that a casual fan like me could still be smarter than a baseball executive 

Vernon Wells - I was livid over this - like GMJ, I was astonished to realize just how stupid a baseball organization could be.  I no longer remember the number, but did a back of the envelope calc that suggested the Blue Jays needed to send us somewhere between $40m and $60m to make that a fair trade. 

(don't really recall my reaction to Frank Robinson)

On 12/22/2023 at 8:02 PM, ten ocho recon scout said:

Yamamoto led the attack on Pearl Harbor. This feels similar.

Hopefully we can P-38 this one, too.

I take it you mean ElAttrache will use this as a scalpel on Yamamoto's first TJ surgery??

Maybe he and Ohtani can share that "Buy 6, get one free" TJ punch card?

What's kinda funny is I noticed "SELL THE TEAM" was trending on Twitter/X last night - I took a look, thinking it was directed to Arte. 

Outraged Red Sox fans, mostly, with some Detroit Pistons fans, and a few Angels fans, bringing up the rear, appropriately.  

I figured this was coming.

 Next up, they'll sign Hader.

Then, they'll buy the biggest billboards they can find near Angels stadium and put Ohtani on them in his Dodger uniform.  

If I were the Dodgers, that's what *I'd* do.

10 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I know most people assume you have to spend a lot of money to win, but the Rays (and Guardians for awhile) prove every year that you don't.  A team with a strong analysis and scouting department can circumvent player payroll.  What we need Arte to do, beyond all else, is invest heavily in those areas.  It DOES seem like he is starting to, but that is only a fairly recent development.

We have some good young talent, but obviously need more.  What we CAN'T do, IMO, is start trading our young talent for "win now" type moves.  Keep developing players, see if you can overpay (within reason) for a player or two, and then keep building from within.

Parenthetically, it needs to be said that we cannot worry about getting into the playoffs during the "Trout window" - this can no longer guide our thinking.  No need to recap this past season's catastrophic "reload for a playoff run".

Like you say, we need to build using improvements in scouting (both US and international), player development, analysis, and while we're at it,  get our names out of the "bad press" business - treat players and their families better, at all levels - no more articles about guys living in their cars and going hungry or being one of the only clubs voting against things like increased spending caps.  I guarantee you, this team has a bit of a crap reputation among players - not Oakland A's terrible, but not the Dodgers, either.  

Arte's had 20 years to figure this out, and I see few signs of progress - he needs to sell the team to someone with the vision and the will and the money to fix all this broken culture and infrastructure.  

2 minutes ago, rottiesworld said:

I don’t think any high profile players will sign here until Moreno sells the team and is long gone from here. 

Where I'm at, too - well, with the caveat that "everything else being equal, they'll choose a team that's not a clusterf*** and has a chance at the post-season."

So, we have to overpay, take on risky players, and maybe pick up a guy who'll come here for $1 more than someone else offers and doesn't care if they ever go to the playoffs.  

Ohtani leaving doesn't help our reputation as a desirable place to play - but I suspect most FA's already would prefer somewhere else to play.  He could've gotten that same deal from Arte - but he didn't want to stay here.  That speaks volumes.  

Oh, did I go 10 minutes without saying "FU, Arte, please, for the love of God, sell the team already."

(ahem)

So, just to be clear, he's not meeting with the Angels?

Did we ask him and his agent laughed at us? 

Or are we just so beat-down we didn't even bother calling?

15 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Skaggs dying was obviously horrible. Same as Adenhart. There are worse things  it.

...

Holy shit its been a bad decade.

Yeah, but just think of the redemption arc this has all set up?   

(sigh)

Part of me wishes they'd contract this team and put me out of my misery.  

(I wonder if Ohtani giving the Angels a $680m middle-finger is the "unfinished business" Arte was talking about?)

I guess we can take consolation in the fact that everyone now hates the Dodgers, calling them the "Tax Dodgers", etc.

If they sign Yamamoto+, the hatred for them will be incandescent, and they'll probably get the Astros treatment wherever they go.  

Some cold-ass comfort there, but it's all I got.

On 12/9/2023 at 4:18 PM, Stradling said:

It means nothing. His contract is untradeable based on his inability to stay on the field. If I was Arte I’d tell him exactly that. I wouldn’t pay a dime to move his contract. 

Pretty unlikely, but if he wanted a trade that could work, I'd pay a part of his contract to get some useful talent in return.

No top-tier FA will take our money while there are competitive teams who'll pay them the same.  Any money saved we'll spend on Joe Blanton and Anthony Rendon's love child.   We need prospects back.

Everyone sees this team for what it is - or rather, what it isn't.  It has no reasonable chance at the playoffs, probably for the rest of Trout's career.  Let him play on a playoff team (assuming that's his desire, and we can make a trade that benefits the team, long-term.)

(this is where I'd like MLB to have loans like the Premiership - loan him to a team for a stretch run, pay his salary, get some prospects back, then get him back again at the beginning of next season)

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

But the AZ team that is also in the WS saw fit to clear a roster spot for him.

I get what they tried to do, I was worried they would try it -- the whole, he hasn't pitched in XXX months played big, but I'm guessing this particular team may have had more eyes on him just by virtue of location.

I mean, it almost worked.

Those are the things that gives me pause. 

He's in their backyard, and they made room for him.

Did we get caught trying to be cute?  Again?

• Demonstrates through actions & interactions a commitment to the Los Angeles Angels championship season and beyond. 

Which season would that be?

That must've been so hard on the family - much respect to Max for being there throughout,  and very happy for them and that baby Jax will be home soon.

Can't imagine Epstein would come here without being part of ownership, with large financial reserves he can tap, and the freedom to make decisions.  To get that, Arte has to sell control.

This past season has probably made the club much less valuable than last year - would Arte's ego tolerate him going out with a 9 figure decline in value, and near-universal derision over his tenure?  You'd think that'd make him wash his hands, but I think it's just as likely to make him dig in.

I've always said the worst news last offseason was him deciding not to sell the team.

The man is cancer to this team, and it'll never get better until he gives up control.