Grew up in Kansas and saw Yankees vs KC Athletics on August 26, 1961 when I was 7.

Distinctly remember my dad going to get my older brother and me hot dogs in the 6th inning. While he was gone Tony Kubek and Roger Maris hit back to back homers. My dad came back and asked what happened. Needless to say we got no more food that game.

Yanks won 5-1 and it was Maris' 51st homer on his way to 61!

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

This is probably out there for a comp.

A lefty version of Blyleven?

Or another comp, Hamels?

 

How about Tom Glavine comp?

The use of biologics for the elbow: a critical analysis review.

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

With a few exceptions, all the young hitters are showing decent pitch recognition..  It's mostly off other young guys but still nice to see. 

Kyren Paris didn't look over matched against AA pitcher chucking 96. He doesn't look 18 years old or only 165 pounds either. Better understand now why they gave  up Will Wilson.

Also forgot Cal Ripken Jr who played SS till age 35 then switched to 3B.

There's a paragraph about him at bottom of topic/article on Barria losing 14 pounds.... "months away from pitching in games"

Sounds like Barria is in best shape of his life....T.J. omen?

5 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Yes, the pitching is suspect but can we just enjoy the fact that we have two of the very best on our side. I can't remember the last time (if ever) that has happened to this team.

Ohtani was 57

29 minutes ago, ukyah said:

he's got them midwest farm girl looking hips.

also, who is the doughboy showing briceno his pics?

callaway is going to earn his reputation this year.

Jose "Doughboy " Suarez?

46 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I don't know much about the draft, but I assume ace pitchers have come from all sorts of rounds not just the first pick in the first round? But either way I think it is wise that you pick the best player available, whether it be baseball, football, hockey or whatever. Picking the best player available is usually the best way to go. 

Looked at recent list of top 25 pitchers.

17 drafted in 1st round, 2 in 4th round, 1 in 7th, 8th and 9th rounds and 3 were international signings.

The rule says player has to be on teams roster the entire season to be eligible for QO.

Since off season and spring training are not part of regular season would guess player has to be traded before opening day.

Option 2 but switch Ward for Rengifo since Tigers signed Schoop to play 2B.

Tigers don't really have a 3B so possibly Ward could fill that hole. Probably Ward's not enough for Boyd so add William Holmes (from Detroit).

See Rengifo replacing LaStella in 2021 and as 2020 infield depth stashed at in AAA in 2020. 

Boyd's another Bundy/Teheran but pushes Sandoval to AAA as needed depth

Ohtani, Boyd, Bundy, Heaney, Teheran and Canning as rotation.

26 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The 2016 draft was run by the remnants of the 2015 staff.   Eppler brought his people in for the 2017 season.   

It's not like the scouts were out looking at players that fit Epplers criteria for a year before the draft, they basically had whatever info JDs people had and whatever players they chose to scout in the time they had between his winter hire and the June draft.  For some cold weather HS players it was about a month's worth of games.I

Thaiss was the epitome of high floor low ceiling...  

Eppler was hired October 1st so had plenty of time to become synched with existing staff and draft candidates.

Dakota Hudson pitched for Missisippi State and Shane Bieber for UCal Santa Barbara...not cold weather schools.

They both should have been on  Dipoto's staffs radar anyways as potential high draft  picks.

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Barria, Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Buttrey, Middleton, Anderson and Jewell.   So half the staff is two years or less in the majors.  

Staying on Eppler (5 of the 8 you list are Dipoto signings), Canning (2017 draft) was a good draft pick and maybe Aaron Hernandez (2018 draft) will develop into a quality starting pitcher. Sandoval and Buttrey were good trades. 

I could argue Eppler wifted in the 2016 draft on pitching choosing Thaiss and Noni Willams in 1st and 3rd rounds over say Dakota Hudson or Shane Bieber, but if CRod and/or Jose Soriano (signed by Eppler in March of 2016) develop into solid mid-rotation plus pitchers, it would make the draft/signings a strong one. Could be even better draft if Thaiss develops into solid 1B and Marsh as solid OF.

It's too early to judge 2017, 18 and 19 drafts for pitching. If Jack Kochanowicz develops into top of rotation arm, that alone would legitimize 2019 draft.

51 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

OK, I'll bite.

1. I'm dubious. I don't want to be, but I am. Ohtani's value is optimized by starting 24-28 games a year with 4-500 PA. If he does that and optimizes his potential, then he could become the best player in the game. But that might be a tall order. I think 2020 we're going to see around 20 starts with 100-120 IP, and 400 PA. 

2. Yes, I think so. But  I'm guessing something in the 130-150 IP range in 2020. I still see a good #3 starter in him.

3. I think Barria's problem is that he pitched really well and was rewarded with a spot in AAA. I still don't get why the Angels demoted him after being one of their best starters in 2018. I don't expect a 3.41 ERA, but maybe 4.00 or slightly better as he matures. But I could see him being trade fodder, whether this year or next.

4. Yes. I see Sandoval's upside being like Heaney in 2018. Not great, but a very good #4 or solid #3. And I think he'll come into his own quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if he's  better in 2020 than Canning.

5. I expect Heaney to bounce back and not only pitch like 2018, but  maybe  slightly better: an ERA in the 3.50-4.00 range. Whether  he can match 2018's 180  IP is another matter. We'll see.

6. Who knows, but probably. 

7. I could see a bit of a dead-cat bounce from Upton, but think he's seen his best days.  Maybe he hits .250 with 25 HR, but Marsh is going to hit in Salt Lake and force the Angels to figure out how to get his bat into the lineup  as soon as midseason.

8. Isn't Simmons built more like Ripken? Anyhow, I feel like too much has been made of  his off year. He was injured and never found his groove. A year ago we were all thinking he might continue to develop offensively, now he's being written off. At the least he's a much better bounce-back candidate than Upton.

9. He's been pretty consistent the last few years: consistently mediocre with the bat. I don't expect further decline for the next year or two, but  someone has to earn their way into starts at 1B. I suspect that Thaiss and/or maybe Walsh will. Thaiss is going to be a solid player in the  Mitch Moreland mold, maybe even Brandon Belt; Walsh, I think,  is going to be better than expected. By mid-season it will be clear that Pujols is hurting the team more than helping, so he'll be benched more and more. Next year he'll be the "veteran clubhouse presence off the bench."

10. The bullpen is going to surprise some and be very  good. A healthier and better rotation--even though we didn't get the ace we wanted--is  going to help out.

11. Adell and Marsh are going to be stars, Adell possibly a superstar. Rengifo is going to surprise and be a 3-4 WAR player, as good as Fletcher. Thaiss and Walsh will both be solid. Ward I'm more bearish on. I think it was a mistake entirely taking the catcher's mitt out of his hand; he's be far more useful in that repertoire. Anyhow, I think he'll end up elsewhere: he's the type of player that needs a solid chance to break into the majors, so maybe the Angels need to ship him to someone like the Orioles or Tigers.

I'm amazed that Simmons is close to Ripken and Troy Tulowitski in size. Simmons is 6'-2" /195, Ripken 6'-4" /210 and Tulo 6'-3" /205.

Agree re Simmons. He came back too soon from a severe ankle injury and was never totally healthy. Looking for him to have a good year offensively and defensively. Rendon at 3B is going to make Simmons even better at SS and push him down the order where he should be.

17 minutes ago, ettin said:

When you consider how well Eppler and the front office staff pick their relievers off of the waiver wire, you have to think they feel pretty comfortable using their first pick or two on position players and then plucking arms in the middle and later rounds.

But think where the Angels would be in 2020 if they took Dakota Hudson vs Thaiss (some mock drafts had them choosing Hudson) and Bieber vs Nonie?

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I agree, but I'd also like to add that he and his staff really made some questionable draft moves the past two years. Jordyn Adams could prove me wrong, but there was a ton of pitchers available that were near ready in the 2018 draft and he went after Adams and Jackson with his first two picks.

This past draft really confused me with the Wilson pick and it gets worse when he had to trade the pick away just to fix a mistake of his in Cozart. 

But what really bums me out is that there were arms available that were highly rated that he didn't draft ahead of Wilson. Guys like Rutledge, Priester, Kirby and Thompson would have been a much better selection. I even liked Greg Jones, Cobin Carroll, Michael Toglia and Kody Hoese much better than Wilson. 

If Eppler is able to make a trade for a good controllable arm or sign a few guys like Wood/Walker, I think he gets a B- overall. If he's unable to or land a decent C via FA or a trade, I think he's sitting at a C- overall. 

When you don't make the playoffs and you've failed to build a good starting pitching staff I can't see giving him a better grade to date. 

Have to also question 2016 drafting of Thaiss (yes they saved $'s to use later on Marsh) but they passed on Jesus Lazardo, Pete Alonzo, Gaven Lux, Eric Lauer, Carter Kieboom, Dakota Hudson, Will Smith and Shane Bieber. Bieber hurts the worst considering he played high school and college baseball in Angels backyard and Angels used 3rd round pick on Nonie Willams. 

Understand draft can be real crapshoot (Trout and Adell as examples the Angels won on) but come on, Nonie Williams vs. Shane Bieber when they needed pitching???

Angels are their own competition.

In order to compete for a wild card spot Upton and Simons have to stay healthy and productive, Ohtani has to make strides towards being a front line pitcher, Adell has to develop into an everyday right fielder, Canning and Sandoval have to develop into solid mid-rotation options and Eppler has to find a front line catcher and a pitcher to slot in with Ohtani at top of rotation. 

I have heard it said often on this site that Ryu shouldn't be signed because of his injury history and that he doesn't keep himself in shape (though he is pursuing a masters in Physical Education in Korea).

He had TJ surgery in 2004 as a 17 year old.

From 2006 to 2012 he averaged about 180 innings per season in Korea topping out at 211 in 2007.

He pitched 192 innings in 2013 and 152 innings in 2014 for the Dodgers.

He didn't pitch in 2015 because of labrum surgery and only 5 innings in 2016 because of debridement surgery on left elbow.

In 2017 he pitched 127 innings which is probably attributable to coming back from surgery.

In 2018 he pitched only 82 innings because of a groin injury - not an arm or shoulder injury - that placed him on the 60 day disabled list.

In 2019 he pitched 183 innings.

So yes 2015 and 2016 do make one wonder if his pitching arm/shoulder are breaking down but to be quite durable in the eleven other years he has pitched one has to wonder if 2015 and 2016 were blip's and he should judged by the other 11 years in which he has averaged 175 innings + per season.

He has top of the rotation pedigree versus Keuchel, who is nothing more than an inning eater now, and the Angels have enough of those types with signing Bundy and Teheran..

48 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Looking at the 2015 draft and filtering out only pitching, Canning is only one of four other pitchers to face MLB hitting. Only one pitcher picked ahead of him, the #5 pick Kyle Wright, got 4 starts and logged a 9.72 era in that role. That puts 20 pitchers picked before Canning that have not graduated to the big leagues, some because they are too young, some because they aren't ready even being college picks. The three other pitchers picked after Canning were not impressive in their MLB debut.

Put this in perspective. Canning in his rookie season, without a viable pitching coach, logged 17 starts and even with trash can banging competition produced at essentially league average. You would have to be a pretty stubborn mule to think there is no room for improvement, or a considerable amount of ceiling yet to be reached. And the same can be said for his younger counterparts.

Yes, the Angels need another quality starter. They don't necessarily need two because at some point you have to let the youth movement rise up, make their mistakes and become real MLB quality pitchers instead of just prospects. I know, it's a lot easier to project an established pitcher but then again there is no further upside to a Dallas Kueuchel, he is what he is and will do nothing more than decline from this point forward. 

Scotty is right, it isn't as dismall as the talking heads have been promoting because they are selling players already on the market. They don't know prospects all that well so a free agent solution is easier to make a case for. So what you read or hear is from a narrow perspective and also from mouthpieces like Heyman that are tied to Boras as his publicity agent. It's slanted, some true, some an agenda.

The purpose of this message board is to talk about these subjects, argue a bit but in the end I hope none of you think any one of the talking heads could be a relevant GM and make a series of moves that can be economically feasible for more than the one season they are discusssing. They have no responsibility to a 5-10 year plan. 

Much appreciate your sane outlook within all the screaming. Canning, Ohtani, Heaney and all other returning pitchers will benefit from Madden/Callaway, improved infield defense and a deeper offensive lineup. Would like Ryu if # of years of contract is 3. Not sure about Keuchel...

12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Not trying to pick at you I promise, but what kind of pitcher do you really think the angels are going to land trading the likes of what is in your “trade willingly” category?

Maybe a guy with #3 upside?  Maybe?

That just doesn’t deliver what the team needs.

If you want an ace type or someone you can feel comfortable calling your #1 or #2, you have to trade some high quality prospects.  You hope you can hold on to your top couple maybe and make a deal with a couple of others.

Kluber has two years of control.  He is worth a package that includes one name from your no trade group.  I would hope that was Fletcher or Marsh.  Then maybe you can throw in disposable bodies.

Or you have to give up multiple guys from your trade cautiously category.

I dig many of these prospects but outside of Adell and Canning, I am forcing myself to acknowledge that I WANT there to be deal that costs something significant because I want a great pitcher, not some guy with #3 upside.

Fletcher mentioned in Kluber thread that Indians guy he knows said they were not looking for high end prospects in a trade but a salary dump since they think they have enough pitching.

I'll look at this through possible 2022 starting lineup.

2B Fletcher

CF Trout

DH  Ohtani/Upton

3B Rendon

RF Adell

1B Thaiss

LF Marsh

SS Simba

C ???

SP Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval, CRod, Ryu and Aaron Hernandez

I'd trade any of the others

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Cots didn't include the $4M bonus he earned for '20 & $21

You are correct. Was only looking at option and missed the increase in salary.

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

So I think we now have the best or 2nd best middle of the line up in the AL West.

Trout

Rendon

Ohtani

Upton

Vs.

Springer

Altuve

Bregman

Correa

Damn the Astros are good.  

Problem of comparison is they also have Gurriel, Brantley and Alvarez.

24 minutes ago, Lou said:

it does

Just found this on Cott's regarding Kluber's contract.

15:$1M, 16:$4.5M, 17:$7.5M, 18:$10.5M, 19:$13M, 20:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout), 21:$14M club option ($1M buyout)

Assignment bonus: $1M if traded

If traded in 2020, 2021 option converts to a vesting option guaranteed if Kluber has 160 innings pitched in 2020 and is not on the disabled list at the end of the 2020 season

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The guy who covers the Indians doesn’t think they’d need a top prospect. He thinks they feel they have enough pitching without him and if they unload his salary they can keep Lindor for longer. 
 

I wrote in my story the Indians have had interest in Rengifo in the past. Given that Rendon’s acquisition makes him available, it seems like that may be who the Angels would want to give up (plus a second lesser piece, I assume). The Indians may want more. 
 

Obviously the deal hasn’t happened so they haven’t found the right pieces yet. 

Do you know if team option applies if he is traded?