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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/02/2016 in Posts

  1. 9 points
    There's a lot there. I will try to addres what I can. First of all, last year the team's situation didn't look as dire as it does now because they didn't have so many injured pitchers. They had 8 starters. Getting Simmons and Escobar to compete in 2016 made sense. It's a different situation now. The reason for leaving the other holes was flat-out money. That's Arte's call. It hasn't changed. They still won't spend big until they are rid of the Hamilton contract IMO. And this deal essentially does acknowledge that 2017 may not be that great and they are building for the long term. If 2017 stinks what difference does it make if you have Santiago or Nolasco? But Meyer can be a part of 2017-2022, whether as a starter (a cheap one) or a dominant reliever. As for what else they could have gotten for Hector, it's all a risk. There are players with lower risk and lower reward (like the M's got for Miley). If you want guys who are younger because they are further out, you still don't know if they'll be any good. Any A/AA player who is a safe bet is either really good (which means you can't get him for Santiago) or has a really low ceiling (like a bunch of other guys the Angels already have). Santiago has limited value, so you have to decide how you want to cash it in.
  2. 7 points
    yk9001

    Puig

    Guys, I think I started a "Puig vs. Trout: Who ya got?" thread one time. I'll excuse myself now.
  3. 6 points
    Jeff Fletcher

    Twins acquire Santiago

    It seems to me that a lot of Angels fans want the team to gamble on players who have a big upside but haven't done it yet. That's pretty much what people want to see. All of this "trade everyone and rebuild" talk is about what exactly? Do you want to trade Hector Santiago to get a younger Hector Santiago? They have Santiago now and they aren't good, because they lack front of the rotation starters. How do you think you get those guys? Well you can't acquire some team's legit top prospect talent for anything the Angels have. You can't get Julio Urias or Lucas Giolito. You can get a) a lower ceiling guy like Ariel Miranda (who the M's got for Santiago comp Wade Miley) or b ) a high ceiling guy with some issues. Which way do you want to go? Do you want to just keep bringing in more Santiagos, more 4-5 starters? More guys who throw 120 pitches in five innings? Or do you want to take a chance. I'll bet if you had heard, "hey, we can trade Alan Busenitz for Alex Meyer, a former stud prospect" you'd have lined up to do it, right? Essentially, that's what they did, with the caveat that they also made Hector Santiago a little worse in a season in which the team probably isn't going to be that good anyway. Obviously, it may not work at all. But if you are where the Angels are, you have to gamble. You can't just keep loading up on safe Santiagos and Mirandas.
  4. 6 points
    vladdy#27

    Twins acquire Santiago

    I guess I'm in the minority as someone that likes this trade. Nolasco and Santiago aren't really that much different. Both give up a lot of home runs. Santiago gives up less hits, but walks more, so both are going to have a similar WHIP. Since Santiago has been in the major leagues Nolasco has had a high WAR in every single season, including this one. The Twins are paying Nolasco this season (while we are still paying for Santiago) and giving us 4M next season to cover the cost difference. Then we have the ability to pick up Nolasco for an additional season longer than Santiago is under contract for. It also evens out our rotation. If we keep Santiago we are heading into 2017 with 3 lefties in our rotation (Santiago, Skaggs, and Smith) 2016 Player A: IP 124 FIP 4.29 K/9 6.7 BB/9 2.1 WHIP 1.35 HR/9 1.3 WAR 1.5 (Nolasco) Player B: IP 120 FIP 5.03 K/9 8.0 BB/9 4.3 WHIP 1.33 HR/9 1.5 WAR 0.5 (Santiago) On top of basically swapping Santiago for a right handed version of himself we also acquire a guy we all would have been ecstatic to acquire a year ago for Santiago. Meyer's has had success in the upper minors, while still unproven at the big league level the potential is definitely there. Even if he can't stick in the rotation past 2017, we really wouldn't need him there (Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Tropeano, Smith), he looks like a guy that could have success at the back end of a bullpen. Look at Wade Davis, he put up a 5+ ERA in 2013 at 27 years old as a starter. While not having much success before that. In his age 28 season and since he has been one of the best relief pitchers in baseball. Pomeranz struggled in his first 3 seasons in the big leagues, he was younger and pitching in Coors, but he was a top pick that took a while to develop, and a move to the bullpen, to figure things out. Andrew Miller is another guy. I'm not saying that Meyers is going to be the next Wade Davis, Drew Pomeranz, or Andrew Miller but he definitely has the potential. While there is risk in Meyer's reaching his potential, there isn't much risk in this trade as Santiago to Nolasco is a lateral move. We can only gain, while we can't really lose. Even if Meyer's amounts to nothing and Nolasco gets worse it will still lead toward making the Angels better as it will give us a better draft pick.
  5. 6 points
    jsnpritchett

    2016 Trade Deadline Analysis

    " In the worst case scenario, if Alex can’t get his command under control as a starter, Meyer could turn into an elite reliever so the outcomes here are fairly rosy for the Halos." The "worst case scenario" is that he might turn into an elite reliever? You're sure optimistic, ettin! I think the worst case scenario is that he can't hack it as a reliever, either, and is out of baseball in a couple of years.
  6. 5 points
    Inside Pitch

    Servais > Scioscia

    Anyone tell you it was his knee that gave out? Dude's arm never went bust -- his knee did. Good talk...
  7. 5 points
    Ohtaniland

    Servais > Scioscia

    Mike Scioscia is responsible for the demise of the franchise a lot more than people are willing to admit. His style of managing is obsolete. He's been surrounded by plenty of talent to work with over the years since 2002 but failed to produce a championship. He's undermined his GM's along the way and was the driving force that pushed out Napoli and brought us Vernon Wells. He wasn't thrilled that Trout was called up while Abreu was sent packing. His stubbornness to continue accommodating veteran players is ridiculous. When you allow a player to tell you when and where he's going to play and where he's going to hit on the lineup card you lose respect from the rest of the team. Sosh could've brought us some prospects at the deadline. He would've been the perfect person to move since he's outta here after 2018 anyway.
  8. 5 points
    arch stanton

    Servais > Scioscia

    I don't know if that's a comparable situation. Street was out for a long time and hasn't had very steady work. He was also being auditioned for a possible trade. While I think we all agree that Bedrosian is the better pitcher now there's still room to debate whether Street, who is signed for another year, needs to lose the closer role without a few opportunities to make amends. Scioscia seems willing to give that and that's probably why players like playing for him while it's a big unknown how much they'll like Sevais over the long term.
  9. 5 points
    Jeff Fletcher

    Twins acquire Santiago

    I also get that a lot of you look at Meyer and see his age and his injury and stats and think he has no chance. I have never laid eyes on the guy myself. But in my conversation with Angels people today, I can tell you they have been watching the guy for a long time and looked at his MRI (he had the same thing Skaggs had in May and June) and they all wanted him. They may be wrong but their opinion is far more well informed than yours or mine.
  10. 5 points
    Dochalo

    2016 Trade Deadline Analysis

    I would have preferred player/players with the greatest possible value regardless of their level. With less of a focus on what is going to help in 2017 or even 2018. If that talent isn't ready but the team is somehow making a run, you can always use it to acquire other talent. From the sound of things though, Eppler really wanted Meyer. Who probably has more upside than any other player we could have gotten for Hector. So far, Eppler has done a solid job of finding his guy and getting him. Even if the deal seems odd at the time. Gotta give the guy some credit in that this guy has #2 starter or top flight closer potential. If it works out, he looks like a genius. That said, regardless of the players involved, the philosophy behind the deal is what troubles me but I guess I shouldn't be surprised after seeing the Simmons and Escobar deals. I just think we are pissing in the wind for 2017 and I really hope we don't start giving up farm pieces to take the team to 80% of what would be a contender. Leaving the other 20% to chance/luck. I know that a huge chunk component of that is not on Eppler, but Arte. Anyway, not what I was hoping for, but the 'what I would do' ship sailed a while ago.
  11. 5 points
    Oz27

    2016 Trade Deadline Analysis

    I hope you're right about this, Ettin. To me it looks like we traded a decent starter for a worse starter, earning more, with the same length of club control ... as well as a relief prospect. I don't see Meyer sticking as a starter, that seems pretty unrealistic at this point. I firmly believe if we'd just auctioned Santiago off for prospects and not had this strange obsession with filling the 2017 rotation that we would have got a much better return.
  12. 5 points
    When a guy draws a picture of home plate for the umpire, you keep that crazy mofo.
  13. 4 points
    I did a Facebook LIve chat tonight breaking down and explaining the Angels trades. Also talked about some other stuff.
  14. 4 points
    ten ocho recon scout

    The Nagy Effect

    Hmmmm...not sure how much Nagy has had to do with it, but it definitely makes for a good discussion. Nagy sleeping like a baby?
  15. 4 points
    nate

    ISIS delenda est

  16. 4 points
    mulwin444

    Twins acquire Santiago

    Eppler has done a good job with finding some interesting waiver pickups and has won the Escobar and Simmons deal so he's got some collateral. Without access to the same info he does, from the outside, this one is just odd.
  17. 4 points
    Angelsjunky

    2016 Trade Deadline Analysis

    We're largely sympatico as usual, Doc. That said, I'm not sure why "the philosophy behind the deal" troubles you, or how it means that the Angels are trying to assemble a vague semblance of competition at the expense of future success. You and I agree that 2017, and probably 2018, are lost causes and only secondary towards building for 2019 and beyond. But this trade does just that. In Nolasco the Angels have an innings eater for 2017. If we see 2017 as lost, it doesn't matter if it is Santiago or Nolasco. But in Meyer - while far from a sure thing - Eppler acquired another youngish arm that could fit right in with Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Tropeano, and Shoemaker. Again, given that 2017 is essentially lost, it can be a year in which Meyer establishes himself in a new context, gets a starting job and the major league experience to take a step forward in 2018. To put it another way, Nolasco is an adequate replacement for 2017--and possibly 2018--and Meyer gives the Angels another potential mid-rotation arm for their next contending team in 2019. It isn't a sexy trade, or one that is obviously good, but I think it is one that will grow on fans in time.
  18. 4 points
    I just hope we're not going to be like the Pirates were when they finished under .500 for twenty straight years. This organization needs a major restructuring, starting with the owner and going from there.
  19. 4 points
    Stradling

    Twins acquire Santiago

    If this is the entire trade then fuck off Eppler.
  20. 4 points
    Angel Oracle

    Twins acquire Santiago

    I just lost some respect for Eppler. Why not just hold on to Santiago, if that's the best they could do?
  21. 3 points
    ettin

    2016 Trade Deadline Analysis

    I'll let Chuck and David post this formally if they choose to do so but here is an analysis of the two trades the Angels made today: 2016 Trade Deadline Analysis Minutes before the trade deadline expired, the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim announced two trades involving LHP Hector Santiago and RHR Alan Busenitz going to the Twins and RHR Joe Smith being sent to the Cubs. Frankly the latter trade is simply the Angels cashing in pure rental player Joe Smith for low A-ball RHP Jesus Castillo. Jesus is a young 20 year old potential lottery ticket type pitcher that was not in the Cubs Top 30 prospects (but will be in the Angels system). Castillo has a fastball that sits at 91-92 mph and is noted as having an advanced change up but his splits this year show that he needs to improve his command and control against left-handed hitters. You can read short scouting reports here and here (w/video clip). This will go down as a classic rental trade involving a set up reliever for a low to mid-level prospect. Eppler did well enough to get someone of this potential but beyond that there is not much to see here so let us move along to the other more interesting trade. When I first saw the Santiago trade announced on Twitter I have to admit it gave me pause. Switching out mid-rotation type starters with the Busenitz/Meyer swap seemed odd at first glance. Additionally the Twins sent a small amount of cash to even out the 2016 and 2017 salaries of Nolasco and Santiago making this a cash neutral trade for the Angels in those two seasons. So what have the Angels done here and why? First of all let us examine the contracts. As previously stated in the ‘2016 Trade Candidate: Hector Santiago’ article Hector has approximately $2.5MM left on his 2016 contract and is likely to make about $8.5MM in 2017 via arbitration and will become a free agent after next season. Nolasco has approximately $6MM remaining on his contract this year, $12MM for 2017, and a team option year in 2018 for $13MM with a $1MM buyout. If Ricky pitches a total of 400 innings between 2016 and 2017 that option year becomes a player option instead. The Angels rotation woes for 2017 are well documented at this point. As we discussed in the ‘2016 Trade Deadline Wrap Up’ article the Angels would need to add at least two starters next year even if they did keep Santiago. So in order to move Hector they really needed to obtain a MLB or near-ready MLB prospect starting pitcher and in this case they obtained the former in Nolasco. The reason they targeted Ricky specifically was his contract length and option year. Currently Nolasco has pitched approximately 125 innings this season. This essentially means that Ricky will have to pitch an additional 275 more innings between now and the end of 2017 to turn the 2018 team option into a player option. This could be beneficial to the Angels because they currently have two starters, Heaney and Tropeano, that will not return until the 2018 season and Richards who will likely go under the knife himself and be in the same situation. If all of them are recovering from Tommy John surgery the odds that all three will return healthy in 2018 is approximately 51%. Having a starter with a team option year for that season would give the Angels insurance in case one or more of the above are not ready for the 2018 season. In the best case scenario, where all three are healthy and available, the Angels can simply exercise Ricky’s $1MM buyout and part ways with him. Beyond the logical contract issues Santiago is a better starter than Nolasco when he is at his best and is a lot worse than Ricky when he is at his worst. Below are Santiago’s and Nolasco’s career K%-BB% splits: Really when you look at Hector’s and Ricky’s batted ball profile and splits you see pitchers that achieve similar results through different approaches. Santiago works hitters by creating poor contact (less line drives) and when he does that well, he looks like the ace of a team. Nolasco is better at controlling the zone, putting the ball a little more on the ground, and walking hitters less. Basically the Angels are losing Hector’s flashes of brilliance in exchange for a bit more consistency and groundballs (versus RHH’s) from Ricky. The kicker for the Angels and what makes this a potentially good trade is the addition of the Twins #8 prospect, per FanGraphs, Alex Meyer. Meyer is a former 1st round prospect from the 2011 draft that, all the way up until last year, was a Top 100 prospect in baseball. You can read the FanGraphs prospect review here. Alex has a potentially 80 grade fastball with an above average knuckle curveball and a developing change up. He has been recovering from a shoulder injury and is expected, per Jeff Fletcher, to begin throwing again in about 2 weeks. Eppler stated in the Fletcher piece that they plan to bring Meyer into Spring Training as a starter in 2017 to give him an opportunity to compete for a rotation spot. In the worst case scenario, if Alex can’t get his command under control as a starter, Meyer could turn into an elite reliever so the outcomes here are fairly rosy for the Halos. The loss of Busenitz is more than mitigated by the potential of Meyer. In the end this trade looks like a high upside play for the Angels. Not only did they exchange the sporadic higher ceiling performance of Hector for the more groundball-oriented, lower walk rate of Ricky they picked up a high-ceiling pitching prospect in Alex Meyer whose value was depressed due to injury. Of course any trade can backfire but right now I like what the Angels did here by bringing in two potential starters for 2017 and increasing their insurance policy on Richards, Heaney, and Tropeano for the 2018 season.
  22. 3 points
    nate

    It has to be Arte

    There is no way the Angels could have had this many bad GMs.
  23. 3 points
    tomsred

    Servais > Scioscia

    Calzone is a good dude, but that bus trip is making him grumpy.
  24. 3 points
    Dochalo

    Twins acquire Santiago

    he's actually having a solid season at AAA. He'd probably be in the bigs with the halos right now if they weren't a bunch of anti-semites.
  25. 3 points
    tdawg87

    Twins acquire Santiago

    Yes. But whining is way more fun than being positive. Especially if it makes a player's brother incredibly angry and they go off the deep end.
  26. 3 points
    ScruffytheJanitor

    Servais > Scioscia

    Funny thing his, Scioscia has been REALLY good at making optimal choices from his bullpen (See: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-bullpen-managers-mike-matheny-joe-girardi/). The problem is: he just hasn't had very good options.
  27. 3 points
    tomsred

    Twins acquire Santiago

    I didn't tell you what they are like, I told you my perception of a factor involved in message boards. It's okay to disagree with that perception, but don't you agree that message boards are "emotional magnets" so to speak? It seems to me that's part of their purpose, an emotional outlet.
  28. 3 points
    halomatt

    Servais > Scioscia

    Scioscia's a genius. The dude brought us a Series win in '02 and multiple playoff years in the last ten years. He can't help it if his general managers are crap. HOF Manager we're watching! That outta kick off the shit storm!
  29. 3 points
    tdawg87

    Servais > Scioscia

    We're early on page 1 but I predict this thread will be a clusterfuck.
  30. 3 points
    Second Base

    Servais > Scioscia

    Scioscia has his strengths and weaknesses, like anyone else. He's a great "player's manager" in that he really has their back. He's a great clubhouse manager as well. His pre-games are light, fun, optimistic. His team building exercises during spring training is the stuff of legends. He has a good rapport with MLB umpires and the commissioner's office, which can't hurt. He handles the media really well. But his weaknesses are the same they've always been. Not as open to deploying prospects as he should be. The worst bullpen manager maybe ever. In game tactics are questionable. His personnel choices are at times, laughable. As far as managers go, he's ok. Not good, but not the worst either. And Servais, we don't know what sort of manager he is. Decent first season in Seattle. He's meeting expectations. He and Scioscia don't like each other.
  31. 3 points
    How about Chris Farley doing John Kruk?
  32. 3 points
    mulwin444

    Twins acquire Santiago

    I think people know you are not getting a good, top level prospect for Santiago but alternatively people are not going to be thrilled when you take on an older, worse SP for the chance of a 26/27 year old injured faded prospect to realize the potential that has never really shown signs of surfacing. It sounds highly unrealistic to expect a return on that gamble when the guys' own drafting franchise doesn't see a need to hold on to him. There is desperate but hopeful and there is THIS.
  33. 3 points
    tdawg87

    Puig

    Then we have to hope CJ Wilson can play left so we can get a giant pussy out there.
  34. 3 points
    jsnpritchett

    New MLB/Angels Top 30

    Ouch. That doesn't exactly make me feel better about the deal.
  35. 3 points
    There's no salary relief. It's just a wash (Angels pay Santiago's salary for this year, Twins pay Nolasco's, and then they send $4M to us next year to roughly balance out the difference in their anticipated salaries).
  36. 3 points
    Oz27

    Twins acquire Santiago

    They did execute that goal, you're right. It just seems like the wrong goal to have. There are better ways to acquire arms to eat innings than underselling a valuable asset.
  37. 3 points
    bloodbrother

    Trout vs. Puig - who ya got?

    I liked this bump because I didn't look like a fool in it.
  38. 3 points
    "...naïve of card misplay" I've said this often
  39. 3 points
    A couple of things: 1) Escobar's trade market didn't develop well as the Royals fell out of contention, the Giants went the cheaper route with Nunez, and the Mets also went the cheap route with Jose Reyes. 2) September waivers could still see Escobar getting traded especially if those "cheap" options don't work out for the Giants and Mets and/or another contending team loses a key player at 3B or even 2B. Finally the Angels have clearly stated that they are not a rebuilding team. It could be that they want to compete and see where the 1st half of 2017 takes them with a rotation consisting of Shoemaker, Skaggs, Nolasco, and Meyer as the starting four (which is potentially an above average starting four to be honest). Add a FA starter like Nova or Hellickson to the mix and the Angels might have a fighting chance. Is it a good chance? That I can't answer without seeing how the offseason plays out too. The could have just decided that they will let the market expand in the offseason for Escobar as well.
  40. 3 points
    Watching this trade deadline coverage it's pretty clear just how irrelevant the Angels are.
  41. 3 points
    they never said who they intend on competing with Beat the Twins !
  42. 3 points
    Adam

    Why do you think Escobar didn't get traded?

    The Angels are stupid and intend to "compete" next year
  43. 3 points
    He slid into Eppler's office and did the big SAFE move.
  44. 3 points
    Turd Ferguson

    Twins acquire Santiago

    If anyone was advocating us trading Trout to reboot the farm, that should be off the table now. I don't want to even imagine how bad this organization would boot that deal.
  45. 3 points
    Adam

    Twins acquire Santiago

    Eppler is fucking awful
  46. 3 points
    Oz27

    It has to be Arte

    I've come to believe meddling owners are the worst thing you can have. The most successful recipe is to have a guy who hands over the money to someone who actually knows what they're doing. It certainly appears that isn't the case with us. I defended the guy for a long time but I really, really hope he sells the team soon.
  47. 3 points
    mulwin444

    Twins acquire Santiago

    So...you trade Hector Santiago, a lefthanded SP with actual value (minimal but actual value) for a older and shittier pitcher and an injured, failed prospect...oh, and Eppler threw in an extra prospect who can touch triple digits with his fastball. This is really quite indefensible...
  48. 3 points
    calscuf

    Twins acquire Santiago

  49. 3 points
    Dochalo

    Twins acquire Santiago

    doing exactly what I had hoped they would not. Using our assets to play for 2017. this team is retARTEd
  50. 3 points
    CanadianHalo

    Twins acquire Santiago

    A trade so bad that not even Stradling can put his usual homer spin on it. I think we've officially hit rock bottom boys


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