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The rotation is still lacking


WallyWorld

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The fact is they won 78 games so I'm keeping my expectations realistic.  The rotation was a problem but not the only problem.  We had a bad BP and terrible D.  To expect all these things to be fixed in a single offseason is unrealistic so I am assuming that, if everything falls right, we're looking at a maybe a high-80 win team and 2nd wild card.  

 

i think that's pretty reasonable.

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I still say that Williams showed some solid pitching in 2013.   Take away July through mid-August, and his ERA was 3.30.

Unlike Blanton and when active Hanson, Williams didn't struggle for the whole season, and looked pretty solid for 3/4 of the season.

 

If they could re-sign him for say 1 year/$3 million, do it. 

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If we need one more starter after 2014, I know of a FA pitcher by then who should be more reasonable salary wise than Tanaka.

 

Justin Masterson, who one or two publications think may be ready for a Scherzer like breakthrough soon

He gets a lot of swings and misses (8th in AL Ks) and generates a LOT of GB outs (best GB/FB ratio in AL). 

Two of his past 3 seasons saw a mid 3.00s ERA, including 2013.

If he refines his control some, look out!

 

Yeah, looks like he's improved in the past three years. Lefties used to just clock him a lot more. The steals against dropped a lot, too.

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I would say the rotation as it stands right this second, is better than it was last year. Not by a lot, but I believe it's noticeable enough to say so. That said, the depth is probably worse if you think of Blanton as the replacement for Williams and Mulder as the replacement for Richards. That's assuming Mulder will even be used as depth.

 

The Angels are basically an injury or two away from Joe Blanton. There will be injuries this year, be it severe or day-to-day stuff. It happens to every team every year. This is why having a shitty farm system sucks.

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Hey Wallyworld. Do you stand up at weddings and start reeling off divorce statistics just to make everyone so aware that the marriage may not last?

Are you saying Angelswin would prefer a never ending stream of Angels baseball web page articles in the main forum? I'm guessing neither are true.

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First, the rotation of Weaver/Wilson/Richards/Santiago/Skaggs is better than what started 2013.  That said, I don't think Skaggs will be ready this year.  Second, there is no doubt in my mind the Angels will either sign a FA or make a trade for a SP arm before the season starts.  That will make the rotation better and give Skaggs one more season to get ready.  Finally, depth will not come from Blanton, but from Shoemaker.

Edited by Jim B
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Are you saying Angelswin would prefer a never ending stream of Angels baseball web page articles in the main forum? I'm guessing neither are true.

 

I'm not a mod anymore so I don't really have horse in this race.  I did always find it interesting that any post made by a mod was always considered to be representative of aw.  Fact is that the mods and people overseein aw don't always agree on things.  It is possible for mods to have their own opinions and not have them represent those of Angelswin.com. 

 

That said, blarg is wrong.  As usual.

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I'm not a mod anymore so I don't really have horse in this race.  I did always find it interesting that any post made by a mod was always considered to be representative of aw.  Fact is that the mods and people overseein aw don't always agree on things.  It is possible for mods to have their own opinions and not have them represent those of Angelswin.com. 

 

That said, blarg is wrong.  As usual.

Haha, sorry Angelswin, whoever you are.

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First, the rotation of Weaver/Wilson/Richards/Santiago/Skaggs is better than what started 2013.  That said, I don't think Skaggs will be ready this year.  Second, there is no doubt in my mind the Angels will either sign a FA or make a trade for a SP arm before the season starts.  That will make the rotation better and give Skaggs one more season to get ready.  Finally, depth will not come from Blanton, but by Shoemaker.

 

2013: Weaver/Wilson/Vargas/Hanson/Balanton

           Depth: Richards, Williams

 

2014: Weaver/Wilson - same, though I'd argue they're both a year older and thus probably project to be marginally worse, but whatever, let's call it a wash.

          Santiago - I think he's pretty comparable to Vargas, so let's call this a wash

          Richards - probably better than Hanson, certainly more upside at this point in their careers

          Skaggs - better than Blanton?  We have no clue.  Way more upside, sure, but according to many posters on the board, not even ready for the rotation in 2014.  So Blanton could still be this 5th guy.

 

          Depth:  Shoemaker?  He of 1 career ML start?  The ghost of Mark Mulder?

 

So that's a probably marginally better starting 5, assuming full health, with worse depth.  Again, I'm finding it really hard to see how the SP will be much improved.

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You make good points WW.  As the rotation is right now, I think it is a better rotation, but it is not "much better".  I really think we need to see what other moves are made before the season starts.  There are moves Jerry can make that will bring another starter and more depth.  Lets see what happens.

 

If Arroyo's price keeps falling, the Angels could add him and then an arm like Hammel for depth.  I wouldn't mind seeing the Angels bring in Yoon either.

 

What if Jerry ends up trading Howie for a solid #3 type of starter.  That is a rotation changer for sure.

 

My point, lets wait and see what happens.  There is no way Jerry is done yet.

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You make good points WW.  As the rotation is right now, I think it is a better rotation, but it is not "much better".  I really think we need to see what other moves are made before the season starts.  There are moves Jerry can make that will bring another starter and more depth.  Lets see what happens.

 

If Arroyo's price keeps falling, the Angels could add him and then an arm like Hammel for depth.  I wouldn't mind seeing the Angels bring in Yoon either.

 

What if Jerry ends up trading Howie for a solid #3 type of starter.  That is a rotation changer for sure.

 

My point, lets wait and see what happens.  There is no way Jerry is done yet.

 

I hear you.  My hope last week, when Jerry started stocking up on IFs was that Howie would be traded for a #3 guy, but then one of the beat writers (Fletcher I think?) came on here and basically said there's no way Howie brings that kind of return right now.

 

So for now I'm just taking Jerry at his word, which is that he's comfortable going into the season with the group they have.  Which means he's either bluffing, or he's foolish IMO.

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I would reluctantly agree about the status of the rotation.  As much as I would have preferred a top pitcher acquisition this winter, I think I will like the restraint more than a bad GMJ-esque signing.  There was not much out there worth the cost of a bad contract and lost draft pick.  I have seen worse rotations win a WS.

 

Keep hope alive.

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Signing Ulbado or Burnett fixes everything. Another draft pick sucks but us missing on the playoffs because we don't have a solid 3# pitcher isn't worth it. Both of those guys will cost less than Garza. That extra 10 million can supplement the lost pick. 

 

Our farm system is in the current state it is now because the FO has had this mindset. When you have arguably the worst system in baseball and absolutely no pitching depth to speak of you can't keep giving up first round picks. I'd rather take a chance on Arroyo and keep the pick than sign Jimenez and lose it. I don't think the difference between Jimenez and Arroyo will put the Angels over the top.

 

Also it isn't just losing a draft pick, it's losing money to sign other picks as well.

Edited by tdawg87
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so in summary then.. Santiago/Skaggs is more question marks than Hansen/Blanton were?
really?  i mean you can question the depth.. yes, but the rotation?  really?
All of a sudden that wonderful deal we made suddenly looks like shit to everyone?

even a reach around wouldnt satisfy some here...

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There is a VERY good chance Blanton will start several times this season. If someone in the rotation were to get injured,they'd have no choice but to turn to Blanton. I have very little faith in Mark Mulder making the team, let alone starting.

The Angels really should have kept Jerome Williams. A huge blunder on their part.

 

This. Dumb move for a pitching-poor team.

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Weaver dealt with a freak accident last season not related to pitching wear and tear.  His velocity is down and he's probably doesn't have the same arm he did a couple of seasons ago, but the guy can still pitch. 

 

Wilson had his best season with Angels last year and, despite his tendency to nibble, he got them through 212.1 IP.

 

Neither of these guys are aces but they'd still be at the top of any team's rotation in baseball.

 

Richards was misused, I believe, and, once he was able to settle into a SP role, he found success.  As a starter last season, he was 6-6 4.18 ERA 1.306 WHIP, 4 of those starts occurring in April when he gave up 16 ERs in 29 IP.  I think Richards projects right now to be a solid 5 with an eye towards 3 or 4 as he progresses.  I wouldn't be shocked to a see something along the lines of 4.00 ERA 1.30 WHIP when the season is done which should be able to replace Hanson or Blanton's numbers with a positive.

 

Santiago has some upside and should be a solid 4 for us and Skaggs could be the 3 we're looking for if the mechanical flaw we heard about is fixed and brings back some velocity on his fastball. 

 

The Angels are a 2 or 3 starter away from division contention but these guys could give them chance at the Wild Card which is more then I expected with Hanson/Blanton.

 

Funny. You say they are a 2 or 3 starter away. I think they are 2 or 3 starters away.

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