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Who then if not Garza bolsters this staff?


Chuck

Who we getting to bolster the staff?  

80 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would you like to see acquired or signed since Garza is OUT!

    • Bronson Arroyo (if years are short, price is decent)
    • Paul Maholm
    • Chris Capuano
    • Scott Baker
    • AJ Burnett
    • Jason Hammel
    • Ubaldo Jimenez
    • Ervin Santana
    • Jeff Niemann
    • Roy Oswalt
      0
    • Jason Marquis
      0
    • Johan Santana
    • Daisuke Matsuzaka
    • Joe Saunders
    • Other (post who it is if voted on)
    • Acquire a SP via a Trade
    • Stand Pat


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I'm in favor of depth, but not for its own sake. If you seek depth for depth's sake, you get...Blanton. This year, you'd get Maholm, Arroyo, or another of the less-than-desirable options that are available. Just getting any old arm is not a viable solution.

 

Do not sign Arroyo or Maholm. They will get slaughtered at a Blantonian level.

 

Do not sign Jimenez or Santana. First, because they would cost draft picks. Secondly, because they are, and will most likely continue to be, inconsistent at best.

 

So, I would try to see what Kendrick could get us in trade, in the meantime, I would try to find inexpensive options that have upside, not semi-expensive to expensive guys that have seen better days.

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Any of the three guys set to take the 3-5 rotation spots can be bumped for a veteran.  So there is a spot available for anyone who would sign. 

 

I'm sorry, but you just can't take the chance of Blanton returning to form which is kind of what you are banking on right now.  You have to assume about 30 starts from guys not slated for the rotation.  Meaning Mulder, Blanton, and Shoemaker.  I like two of those three, but I'm not willing to bank on any of them or their combo to give quality over that many starts.  Any more starts needed beyond that and you are in bad luck territory that you aren't likely to recover from without a few strong prospects in your upper minors.

 

So while we can't prepare for what happened last year, we can be more prepared for what would happen in a normal season. 

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if you can get Arroyo to sign a 1 year deal that keeps this team under the cap, including if the Angels made a deadline deal that took on more salary July 31st, then yes. I would agree that is a better option than what we got.

 

But it is my opinion, that Arroyo won't take a 1 year deal, and he certainly won't take a multi-year deal for what would be considered a bargain AAV. My whole thing about Arroyo is not being committed to his contract after this year. I would think the Angels are hoping for one of Santiago or Skaggs to prove ready to be in the rotation full time in 2015. With Richards, Wilson and Weaver that leaves one spot open for a FA pitcher (which should be a much better class) with Wells and Blanton coming off the books.

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I really like what the Angels have done and not done this off season.  I suggest they stand pat and wait for the trade market to open up again as the season unfolds.  I would guess that Aybar or Kendrick would have a higher value nearer to the July deadline than now.  And, if the Angels are flush with middle infielders, such a move could be easily absorbed provided that Pujols and Hamilton are producing.  The Angels might even be able to pick up more solid young pitchers in the deal.

 

Bottom line, I think the next move should be based on how Pujols and Hamilton are doing.  If it is the same as last year, what is the point of signing another #4 instead of developing their promising young pitchers at the major league level?  If those two are not producing, the Angels are going nowhere.  I have seen enough to know that Scioscia will bat them in the same MOT spot regardless of their performances. 

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I really like what the Angels have done and not done this off season.  I suggest they stand pat and wait for the trade market to open up again as the season unfolds.  I would guess that Aybar or Kendrick would have a higher value nearer to the July deadline than now.  And, if the Angels are flush with middle infielders, such a move could be easily absorbed provided that Pujols and Hamilton are producing.  The Angels might even be able to pick up more solid young pitchers in the deal.

 

If the young guys are doing well and looking like they are ready it's likely teams would prefer them than either Aybar or Kendrick.  Contenders don't typically trade for an unproven player for the playoff push, and teams selling off are usually looking for younger talent.  If history is any indication the only way they move either of those guys is if they are out of the race and a contender has a need at 2B or SS.  Conversely I can't really see them wanting to move a starting infielder if the Angels are in contention.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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I'm still preferring Capuano, a lefty with more swing and miss ability and better control than Maholm and needed to help face the increased lefty hitting presence in this division.

I have faith in Richards and Santiago reaching at least 180 innings in 2014, but Skaggs will need help.

But if they do end up going for Arroyo for a Blanton sized contract, it won't be a total failure.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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Super fan sighting.

 

Listen, I am not a fair weather fan. The fact that I'm even posting on this board giving a #$@% after watching 4 complete seasons of crap proves otherwise. I love this team and I always will, I just hate how they have sucked lately. This old notion that "real fans" can't ever get frustrated and have to be blind optimists baffles me.

 

i never said i wasnt frustrated, damned right i am, perhaps moreso than ever as this team should be a damn lot better than it is.  I remember the real lean days when going 500 was something to cheer about for about a decade.  being able to drive up on a whim and get good seats... before the bandwagon hit. 

 

Last season to me was one of the most frustrating ive ever had as a fan.  The team had every possible bad thing happen that could have, lost its heart and got to the point that it was very clear even they didnt care and were just playing it out.. i stopped watching about 2/3 of the way thru as i couldnt stomach it anymore.  I've never done that before in over 35 years as a fan of this team.

 

That having been said the question stands, why bother just to suck less?  Why spend any money at all or make any trades if we are going nowhere anyway?  fans?  they see thru that shit, signing Arroyo just to say we tried is like pulling out late and saying you tried.. its pointless.

 

For me this team can make the playoffs... we are about one real piece away form contention in my mind.. a legit starter.  Does that make us a favorite, no, but it puts us in the mix.  It doesn't matter if I pitch unless the offensive guys play like they should but on paper a legit 3 puts us in the mix.. you call me a superfan but i would call you negative Nancy if you think otherwise and making any moves would be little more than mental masturbation of were a third place team either way

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The problem, simply put, as ive said before is that we are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

We need a legit three, problem is there isnt on in FA... no matter how hard we try the guys left out there at this point are a collection of 4s and 5s with little hope of being more than that.

 

I guess the reason some are high on Garza is that he at least COULD possible pitch like a 3.. he has before.. still young, could again.. but there isnt one guy left out there that i personally feel is any better than what we have.

 

I said long ago the best shot was via trade.. something like Kendrick to NY for Nova for example.. not suggesting that to be realistic mind you just as a concept.. i dont think NY wants to go into the season with Roberts as the starting 2B but Kendrick alone probably isnt necessarily fair value either... just saying, a deal something like that. 

 

That might put is right in the middle of it if we were to somehow acquire a legit #3... but it isnt going to happen thru FA at this point.

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Flop I don't really agree. If Arroyo can provide depth and be a solid guy in the rotation there is a lot of value in that. Richards could step up and be a number 3, but that doesn't mean that Santiago and Skaggs will perform at a level where they won't need to be replaced. I prefer to have enough depth to hold us over and get us through rough patches. This team can compete this year, as long as the offense is healthy and the pitchers keep us in games.

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Capuano has pitched for a while and all in the National League. He has a 4,27 era. Do I need to go on?!

 

Arroyo isn't going to do a one year deal.

 

This guy is often over looked and it's Scott Baker. He's basically a bit better than Jerome Williams and doesn't allow many steals.

 

Hammel does and has worse numbers, forget him.

 

Jimenez would obviously cost too much

 

Santana is done

 

Burnett won't pitch for the Angels.

 

Roy Oswalt? No.

Edited by DW711
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Admittedly, Baker was a solid #3 to rock solid #4 for the Twins until the TJ surgery.

Good WHIP normally, holds runners on well, and was pretty decent at getting swings and misses.

If he could be signed for 1 year for say $4 million, maybe he would be a good alternative solution for the #5 starter/utility role to help bring Skaggs along.

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there really isn't a perfect option or perhaps even a really good one at this point.  Not sure if there ever really was one. 

 

Tanaka was probably the best option in terms of making the team better for 2014, but who knows what that would have done to the future.

Garza was a decent option for this year as well and the price ended up fairly reasonable relative to expected and the rest of the market.  Which makes me question his long term health. 

Any trade we could make at this point is unlikely to have any benefit for this year. 

 

Who left now leave's us with an argument over the benefit and/or necessity of redundancy. 

How do we decide what's reasonable? 

 

If our top five starters made every start, I think we'd be pretty solid, but how likely is that.  Well, Weaver and Wilson are 31 and 33 and Santiago, Skaggs, and Richards have never spent a full season as a major league starter.  So it's very likely that the next two to three guys on the depth chart are going to get a significant amount of time.  Are those next three (blanton, mulder, shoemaker) redundant enough to the rest of the rotation to leave things as is? 

 

Would spending 7mil this year improve that redundancy?  ie is someone we could sign 1 WAR better than the three depth guys we currently have?  Personally, I have no doubt than Arroyo, Capuano, Hammels and even Maholm would be.  It also give you an outside chance of being able to overcome two starters worth of missed time.  Like we couldn't last year. 

 

Personally, I don't want Skaggs, Richards, and Santiago feeling like they need to throw over 200ip in their first go around and I don't want Blanton taking their place.  Getting a handful of solid starts from Blanton would be a huge bonus but not something that should be relied up.  Right now, we are and that scares the crap out of me.  I'd rather take a chance on a lesser known guy. 

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Capuano has pitched for a while and all in the National League. He has a 4,27 era. Do I need to go on?!

 

Arroyo isn't going to do a one year deal.

 

This guy is often over looked and it's Scott Baker. He's basically a bit better than Jerome Williams and doesn't allow many steals.

 

Hammel does and has worse numbers, forget him.

 

Jimenez would obviously cost too much

 

Santana is done

 

Burnett won't pitch for the Angels.

 

Roy Oswalt? No.

I still think hammel is a sleeper.  He was awful at Camden last year and his HR rate was unusually high relative to his previous four years.  Not saying he couldn't just blow up like the rest of these guys, but I think his upside his higher. 

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I would be interested in Scott Baker on a 1 year minor league deal with an invite to ST. But since the Mariners are interested, he will get a guaranteed contract from someone. He's had only 1 season with 175IP in the last 7 years. An innings eater he is not.

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Flop I don't really agree. If Arroyo can provide depth and be a solid guy in the rotation there is a lot of value in that. Richards could step up and be a number 3, but that doesn't mean that Santiago and Skaggs will perform at a level where they won't need to be replaced. I prefer to have enough depth to hold us over and get us through rough patches. This team can compete this year, as long as the offense is healthy and the pitchers keep us in games.

 

But, you are assuming he can.  He may, but the numbers suggest he will be north of a 4 ERA the only real question is how far.

i'm not against depth, dont get me wrong, but we need a legit three more than we need a 5,6,7 type guy

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I don't think we necessarily need an innings eater.

We need someone who can make 15-25 starts and pitch around 150 innings. Skaggs, Richards and Santiago should be pitching anywhere from 115-175 innings depending on their effectiveness or their ability to stay healthy.

We don't necessarily need a guy like Arroyo. We just need someone who will be effective in the time we need them. A guy like Capuano has experience pitching in relief as well so he may be a viable option.

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If we can't get a legit 3 then sign the best four on a reasonable two year contract.

 

i cant agree.. we dont need another 4.  for depth fine, but the goal must be a #3 or not waste the money. 

if you are talking depth on a very team friendly contract ok.. i get that as said, but that cant be the goal unless we are just playing out '14. 

 

its no secret i never liked this calss of FA and have been hoping all along they were looking for trade options but pending injuries in ST os something else even that time seems to have passed till summer.

 

we may have to go your route simply because there is no other options at this point in time, but i cant help but feel we failed the off season to some degree if thats what we open with

 

If nothing else we should have locked down the pen.. made some adjustments somewhere.. rather than all the eggs in a poor SP class that didnt pan out. 

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Since Garza is gone and I doubt we go after Jimenez or Santana, two really good #3's, I think we settle for Baker. He'll be cheap, he's still relatively young and he looked good after he came back from surgery late in the season for the Cubs. 

 

Let Richards, Skaggs, Santiago, Mulder, Shoemaker and Baker fight it out for the 3-5 spots after Wilson and Weaver.

 

Competition is a good thing! Should be a fun ST.

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