Who then if not Garza bolsters this staff?

[nate]

Yes, Maholm had Blantonian numbers with Atlanta.  What a disaster he would be here.

 

Sign Arroyo or Capuano if they will take a cheap 1 year deal otherwise stand pat.

[VariousCrap]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the Angels taking a chance on Jason Hammel.  The guy has the biggest upside of any of these guys.

 

They could sign Jason Hammel and if a trade situation for Howie presents itself before the season starts, all the better.

[NorCal Halo]

I am thinking Donovan Hand from Milwaukee.  I got to see him pitch against Haren last year in Milwaukee.  Now that Garza is with the Brewers, I think Hand is relegated to a spot-starting role.  The Brewers need a second baseman, and I would think they would take on Grant Green--especially given how another Angels infielder worked out for them (Jean Segura).  I think Hand would compete well with Skaggs for #5 in the rotation.

Edited January 24, 2014 by NorCal Halo

[Halos of Anaheim]

I would love if we signed two of Hammel, Arroyo or Capuano to a 1-2 year deal. Preferably Hammel and Capuano on the cheap. Both have legitimate bounce back potential.

[SoWhat]

CJ Cron for Marco Estrada. I doubt Milwaukee would want to move him, but first base has been a black hole for them since Fielder left.

[NorCal Halo]

What about Kendrick for Estrada and Hand?

[Jim]

1. Acquire a SP via trade.

 

2. Stay as far away from Maholm, Capuano, Santana, and Ubaldo as possible

 

3. Arroyo as an absolute no choice Blanton type deal. Because we do need to sign another SP.  

[Ohtaniland]

I still say Mark Mulder is the piece.

 

[dimitrig]

Richards will have to be the #3 this season.

 

God help us with the #4 and #5.

 

Pitching has been a problem for the Angels so what we've done is let decent pitchers go to free agency and not replace them with anyone while signing Hackilton for a giant contract! At the same time we also traded away Trumbo, Bourjos, Callaspo, and Morales to pull in a haul of two pitchers. Sweet!

Edited January 25, 2014 by dimitrig

[Stradling]

We traded one year of Morales for one year of Vargas. We got two pitchers for Trumbo and one for Peter. Also if Howie or Aybar can't net us a quality starting pitcher, no way in hell would we get a decent starter for Callaspo.

[xboom28x]

Maybe if the Angels sign about 20 Starting Pitchers to minor league contracts with invites to Spring Training, one of them might stick as a starter.

[nate]

AW logic.  This shitty pitcher can help us because he is marginally better than our shitty pitchers and we need pitching!  Lets sign him for multiple years!

 

If you are trying to help the team for this year with depth then get someone on a one year contract.  Otherwise you **** the team in 2015 and beyond.

Edited January 26, 2014 by nate

[tdawg87]

Since when is depth only important for this year? And really, no one is suggesting going out and getting a guy like Arroyo for 4-5 years. I think most here would take him on a 2 year deal and that's it. Maholm would probably be a 1-2 year deal, same with Hammel and Capuano. Any contract those guys sign isn't going to "**** the team". A guy like Capuano will probably get 6 million per at the most. In today's market that's pretty reasonable.

 

The Angels need pitching depth more than anything. They got a guy like Mulder on a minor league deal because he hasn't pitched in 8 years or whatever. Most pitchers who are worth anything are going to get more than one year, that's just the way it is.

 

If you have any suggestions to what the Angels should do in regards to their SP situation, I'd be glad to read it. I personally don't see a whole lot of options out there.

[nate]

Depth is only worth a damn when it is cheap.  For example, Blanton is depth this season, at 7 million.  Not worth it, is it?  You don't sign veterans for depth, you sign young kids on the cheap.

[tdawg87]

And who are these young kids who will come cheap?

 

I agree that in general, depth is best when it comes from within. Unfortunately, the Angels system is so barren with pitching talent that they have no choice but to look at outside options and overspend on swingman types.

[nate]

So just because young kid aren't there on the cheap, we should spend a ton of money on vets who aren't worth a damn?

 

Stick with what we have if you cannot find someone who fits the mold.  Our young kids in the system can sink or swim.  Especially when the chances of this team making the playoffs are slim in the first place.

[Brent Maguire]

You can only do so much with building depth. If the Angels pitchers get hurt like they did last year, there's no way to prepare for it.

Guys signing deals are looking to be in rotations come Opening Day, not be 6th starters who get a start every now and then. You aren't going to sign a guy like Capuano or Maholm and have them be 6th starters.

Seriously, take a look around the league. Very few teams have good 6th/7th starters. The Cardinals are a compete anamoly and somehow have 8 legitimate candidates in their rotation.

[tdawg87]

So just because young kid aren't there on the cheap, we should spend a ton of money on vets who aren't worth a damn?

 

Stick with what we have if you cannot find someone who fits the mold.  Our young kids in the system can sink or swim.  Especially when the chances of this team making the playoffs are slim in the first place.

 

"a ton of money" is a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? I explained that none of the available pitchers are going to break the bank, and if they do the Angels should move on.

 

You said yourself we have Blanton as depth currently. So when one of the Angels starters inevitably goes down with an injury, do you want Joe Blanton coming in to make a start or two? Or more? I'd rather have someone like Skaggs moved back in the depth chart to come in and make spot starts. Or someone like Capuano make an emergency start out of the pen.

[tdawg87]

You can only do so much with building depth. If the Angels pitchers get hurt like they did last year, there's no way to prepare for it.

Guys signing deals are looking to be in rotations come Opening Day, not be 6th starters who get a start every now and then. You aren't going to sign a guy like Capuano or Maholm and have them be 6th starters.

Seriously, take a look around the league. Very few teams have good 6th/7th starters. The Cardinals are a compete anamoly and somehow have 8 legitimate candidates in their rotation.

 

Of course there is no way to prepare for catastrophic injuries, but you can certainly soften the blow by having average MLB starters ready to make a start when needed. The Angels have Mark Mulder and Joe Blanton as their main depth right now. That's horrifying. It isn't about preparing for the worst, it's about preparing for the inevitable. The Angels WILL have injuries to their starting pitchers this year and it's better to have good depth than terrible depth when those injuries occur. If the Angels have someone like Skaggs ready to fill in or Capuano/Maholm to come out of the pen, with Mulder, Shoemaker, and Blanton as worst-case-scenarios, I'm feeling a lot more confident about their chances.

 

You are correct that guys like Capuano aren't going to sign a deal to be in the minors. However signing him would give the Angels another option to go to for a rotation spot. If he gets it, great, if not, he can go into the bullpen as the new Jerome Williams. Would they be paying him too much? Absolutely. But as I said the Angels aren't in a position where they can just go to their minor league system and get MLB ready starters.

 

I would say a lot of teams have good 6th/7th starters. Those 6th/7th starters are young prospects with a ton of talent waiting to get their cup of coffee at the big league level. This is something the Angels don't have. Shoemaker is ok, but is he reliable enough to make 10+ MLB starts if need be?

[nate]

First of all, vets do't sign to be depth.  Arroyo, Capuano, Maholm, etc only sign when they can be a starter.  They all suck btw.  Arroyo is the best and he will take a 3 year contract worth at least 24 million dollars to sign.  That ****s the team in the long run.  Maholm is Blanton or even worse, and Capuano is possibly better if not injured.  Why spend that money?  Roll the dice with Blanton and the kids in the system.  None of those guys are going to push this team into the playoffs, and signing them means more money put toward 2015 and beyond which hurts the team.

[tdawg87]

First of all, vets do't sign to be depth.  Arroyo, Capuano, Maholm, etc only sign when they can be a starter. 

 

Who says they won't be? If Santiago is moved to the pen, then someone like Arroyo could be the number 3 with Richards and Skaggs behind him. Santiago would then be the emergency starter. Capuano or Maholm are not number 3's by any stretch of the imagination, but they could definitely be a solid 5. The point is it gives the Angels more options for the rotation and more options that aren't Joe Blanton = good.

 

They all suck btw.  Arroyo is the best and he will take a 3 year contract worth at least 24 million dollars to sign.  That ****s the team in the long run.

 

That isn't what I'm hearing. I've heard 2 years. I could be wrong of course but that's what I've heard lately in regards to Arroyo. And really, 8 million dollars per is going to f the team? That will be erased (and then some) when Wells comes off the books in 2015. They also could trade Kendrick if Lindsey is knocking on the door.

 

Maholm is Blanton or even worse, and Capuano is possibly better if not injured.  Why spend that money?

 

Ugh here we go again. Everyone who isn't good is automatically Joe Blanton. Maholm is not a great pitcher, but he was pretty damn decent from 2008 through 2012, and I believe he had a good first half in 2013 before injuries plagued his season. And why spend the money? Who cares? It isn't our money to spend. Seriously, the contract of Chris Capuano or Paul Maholm is not going to hurt anything. They will both get less than Blanton got and are more than likely to give better production. If Arte doesn't want to spend the money then fine, but I think he knows this team badly needs another arm. And like I said, Mulder and Blanton are the Angels "depth" right now. Mulder is a long shot and I don't even know if he'll spend the year in the minors anyway if he doesn't make the rotation.

 

Roll the dice with Blanton and the kids in the system.

 

Eww. Do you really want to do that so the team can save 5-6 million dollars?

 

None of those guys are going to push this team into the playoffs, and signing them means more money put toward 2015 and beyond which hurts the team.

 

This is what gets me. You must understand the importance of pitching depth and having options to work with in spring training. It's not about "pushing the team" into the postseason, it's about keeping them afloat when the injuries occur, which they will. Hell, for all we know Richards or Santiago or Weaver could get hurt and start the year on the DL which forces Blanton or Mulder into the rotation regardless. If the Angels had any semblance of a farm system this wouldn't even be an issue but they don't. They NEED PITCHERS. If Joe Blanton is a viable option to you then great. But he sure as hell isn't to me. And once again, 2015 sees Joe Blanton and Vernon Wells off the books. That's what, 25 million? Isn't Kendrick off the books regardless after 2015? That's another 9 million. Signing a Capuano/Maholm type, or hell even Arroyo is not going to hurt anybody. If Arte has the money he will spend it. We honestly care way too much about his finances here.

Edited January 26, 2014 by tdawg87

[nate]

5-6 million?  It isn't 5-6 million.  It is 20 million.  And now money does matter, otherwise we would have signed Tanaka or garza.  Obviously the Angels are avoiding the luxury tax.  Signing a pitcher to a 2 or 3 year contract at greater than 7 million a year hurts the payroll for the next two seasons.

 

Maholm is crap, with Atlanta he put up Blantonian numbers.  If he signs for a minor league contract then sure, but he will get a 2/14 contract like Blanton got, we see how well that worked out.

 

Arroyo being a #3 is hilarious, he is a #5.  We have #5s already.  Don't pay 20 million or more for a #5.  That is what got this team in the mess they are in already.

 

They aren't a playoff team, and Capuano or Arroyo aren't going to push them into the playoffs.  Don't set aside money in future seasons for pitchers that won't make a difference this season.

[Ohtaniland]

Maybe this guy.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Brent Maguire]

Tdawg I'm definitely with you about signing another guy. I think it's in the best interest for us to sign Capuano and have Skaggs as the 6th guy.

It's just hard to create good depth unless you have good pitching coming up through the system. Obviously the Angels don't have that so I think the best bet is to have Skaggs start in AAA and call him up when they need to.

[tdawg87]

5-6 million?  It isn't 5-6 million.  It is 20 million.  And now money does matter, otherwise we would have signed Tanaka or garza.  Obviously the Angels are avoiding the luxury tax.  Signing a pitcher to a 2 or 3 year contract at greater than 7 million a year hurts the payroll for the next two seasons.

 

Maholm is crap, with Atlanta he put up Blantonian numbers.  If he signs for a minor league contract then sure, but he will get a 2/14 contract like Blanton got, we see how well that worked out.

 

Arroyo being a #3 is hilarious, he is a #5.  We have #5s already.  Don't pay 20 million or more for a #5.  That is what got this team in the mess they are in already.

 

They aren't a playoff team, and Capuano or Arroyo aren't going to push them into the playoffs.  Don't set aside money in future seasons for pitchers that won't make a difference this season.

 

How is it 20 million? It's the AAV of the contract that has any effect on anything. And "7 million a year" doesn't hurt anything. Money is an issue but that is because they weren't willing to give Tanaka 23 million a year or whatever he got. I'm guessing they weren't willing to go higher than the Brewers did for Garza because they shouldn't have. Those figures are significantly different than what we are talking about. I'm not sure why you keep thinking it will hurt the team. It only hurts the team if it puts them over the tax (it doesn't) and if it prevents them from spending in the future (it won't). I'll say once again, Wells and Blanton are off the books in 2015. That's 25 million saved right there. Add in Kendrick and it's 34 million.

 

Also, you are making huge assumptions about Arroyo. He could be a number 5, but he hasn't pitched like a number 5 in almost a decade. Number 5 pitchers don't give you 200 IP and an above average ERA 7 out of 9 years. If he's the number 5 then I think the Angels are in pretty good shape.

 

Your last statement says it all. You are writing off the team for 2014 so you feel it is pointless to spend any money on anything that could help them out this year. And, once again, these pitchers are not meant to "push" the team into the playoffs. They are meant to keep the team competitive when the injuries occur. If you don't think they will be competitive anyway then I guess it's pointless trying to convince you they need another pitcher. I don't like their chances this year but I'd like them a hell of a lot more if they had some decent depth. Not every player on the roster is there to be a difference maker. I understand not wanting to set aside money for pitchers who won't be difference makers, but 6-7 million a year is about how much you pay in today's market for marginal pitching. The Angels aren't going to land some great young pitcher with a ton of upside for 2 million.

 

But you don't think it's worth them getting another pitcher if that pitcher isn't "worth it" in your eyes. I understand that. But again, you don't think the team will compete and I think they have a shot so that's why I want them to get another pitcher.