Another trade thought

[Stradling]

If you've read anything I've posted about trading a middle infielder you know is rather trade Aybar than Howie. Most people are against trading Howie, myself included, because of Green's defense. Would you be more prone to trade Howie if you knew he would be replaced in the everyday line up by Romine at 2nd? I just thought I would open this thought up for discussion....

[Make Angels Great Again]

The offensive drop from Aybar to Romine is way more manageable than Kendrick to Romine.

 

With Romine's defense being better than Aybar's, it might just cancel out the offensive loss or even make him a little better. I think Romine could be as good as Brendan Ryan on D.

[Angel Oracle]

Even though Romine had a decent hitting September, he is still an unknown offensively.

[seenoevil]

I am not a fan of Ayabar clown like, goofy personality, but I do like his defense, switch hitter and  is faster than slow Howie Kendrick. I choose Aybar over Kendrick. Kendrick is slow and a ground ball ball hitter = double plays

[Stradling]

Howie is not slow and does much more than hit ground balls.

[seenoevil]

Howie is  slow and doesn't do much  than hit ground balls.

 

sounds better

[Stradling]

sounds better

Inaccurate but better if you're a hater.

[Scott34]

The problem with dealing Aybar is that there isn't a long-term solution.  With Kendrick you have Green, Lindsey, etc.

[HaloCory22]

I still think Lindsey is the guy going into 2014 at 2B. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

The problem with dealing Aybar is that there isn't a long-term solution.  With Kendrick you have Green, Lindsey, etc.

 

We can afford to stick Romine there for a season, next year is a very good free agent class for shortstops.

 

JJ Hardy

Asdrubal Cabrera

Jed Lowrie

Hanley Ramirez

[Stradling]

He only hits ground balls in DP situations.

He hit into 15 last year, one more than Aybar.

[Crampknees]

Depends on what you can get for Howie which would bring more than Aybar.  Too bad we can't see the offers before but if it looks good than i am not opposed to dealing him.  

[ettin]

In a perfect world I'd love to move Aybar over Kendrick. The easy way to replicate Aybar would be to bring in a defensive-minded SS who can hit lefties to platoon with Romine. Tommy Field can play SS so he would be an option but I'd rather see the Angels trade Aybar to a team like the Mets and get Montero plus Ruben Tejada to platoon at SS.

 

Aybar vs. RHP: .275/.316/.381/.697

Aybar vs. LHP: .282/.318/.397/.715

 

Romine (2011-2013 Minor League Stats) vs. RHP: .290/.361/.383/.744 ----> Adjust for Majors: .250/.340/.343/.683

Tejada (2011-2013 MLB Stats) vs. LHP: .296/.367/.368/.735

 

I think there is a case to be made that platooning two talented defensive SS's would not only give similar results offensively but would probably improve the team defensively, especially with someone like Romine who is a plus defender.

 

It wouldn't be sexy having the "one guy" but it would be cost-effective and could return prospects and/or players for other areas of need. Aybar has value with 3 years left on his contract which is afffordable.

 

EDIT: This would actually be a 2-3 year solution for the Angels until we identify and promote our next SS whether it is Stamets, Rondon, or someone else. Tejada is in his first year of arbitration and is projected to make $1MM. Romine is at the minimum so you essentially replace Aybar @ $8MM for $1.5MM and an extra roster spot.

Edited December 13, 2013 by ettin

[Docwaukee]

The good thing is that there need be no rush trading either of them.  They will likely have similar value at the ASB that they do currently.  So I would only move one of them now if truly improves the 2014 team.  If you are getting projects/prospects back then it does you no good at this point.  Wait till the ASB.  If the team is falling flat, then you can move one or both. 

 

The question becomes what they are worth.  It seems Aybar has more value because of how thin the SS market is, but can he net us a club controlled starter that is a #3ish guy?  I doubt it.  Is it better to have an overpaid Garza and keep Aybar with a guy like Ibanez getting consistent at bats?  Or are we better off trading him for a #4 starter and maybe a prospect, putting Romine/Green at SS (I've never seen green play SS), and using the payroll flexibility to add a bat better than Ibanez (like Choo who will be considerably overpaid as well). 

[red321]

You need to look at this in terms of 2014, and nothing more.

 

Who gives the Angels a better chance to win...NOW. Aybar and Santiago/Skaggs (or Garza) or Romine and whomever they get for Aybar (and then Santiago or Skaggs).

 

Same question could be asked in regards to Kendrick.

 

The Friese trade was made with that in mind...and even the Trumbo trade was made with that in mind to some extent.

[red321]

Friese makes more than Bourjus did...and long term wasn't the wisest move. Trumbo did save cash...and at the same time brought in two pieces to potentially fill the rotation gap right now...and also allow them the ability to pursue someone like Garza. I'm actually quick shocked at the deal they were able to make for Trumbo, and I'm guessing the Halos were as well. They definitely sold high on him and were able to get some longer term pieces that also helped fill some immediate holes.

[arch stanton]

In a perfect world I'd love to move Aybar over Kendrick. The easy way to replicate Aybar would be to bring in a defensive-minded SS who can hit lefties to platoon with Romine. Tommy Field can play SS so he would be an option but I'd rather see the Angels trade Aybar to a team like the Mets and get Montero plus Ruben Tejada to platoon at SS.

 

Aybar vs. RHP: .275/.316/.381/.697

Aybar vs. LHP: .282/.318/.397/.715

 

Romine (2011-2013 Minor League Stats) vs. RHP: .290/.361/.383/.744 ----> Adjust for Majors: .250/.340/.343/.683

Tejada (2011-2013 MLB Stats) vs. LHP: .296/.367/.368/.735

 

I think there is a case to be made that platooning two talented defensive SS's would not only give similar results offensively but would probably improve the team defensively, especially with someone like Romine who is a plus defender.

 

It wouldn't be sexy having the "one guy" but it would be cost-effective and could return prospects and/or players for other areas of need. Aybar has value with 3 years left on his contract which is afffordable.

 

EDIT: This would actually be a 2-3 year solution for the Angels until we identify and promote our next SS whether it is Stamets, Rondon, or someone else. Tejada is in his first year of arbitration and is projected to make $1MM. Romine is at the minimum so you essentially replace Aybar @ $8MM for $1.5MM and an extra roster spot.

I don't like the idea of platooning at SS. I'd rather give Romine the 600 PA's and have Tejada or whomever be the utility IF. This also allows the Tejada to play 2B vs lefties and maybe let Howie go to LF and rest Hamilton.

Edited December 14, 2013 by arch stanton

[wopphil]

I like Aybar but if Jerry could trade him for something comparable to what he got for Trumbo (two cost controlled arms, at least one with big upside), I'd do the deal in a heartbeat.

[fan_since79]

He only hits ground balls in DP situations.

 

...late in close games where we're trailing by a run or two.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

He hit into 15 last year, one more than Aybar.

 

For all the talk about rally killing, the Angels were 22nd in MLB GIDP last year, grounding into 118 double plays. The Cardinals, who played in the World Series, led all of baseball with 160 GIDP. The AL leaders were Baltimore and Minnesota, grounding into 147 each. The fewest in MLB was Oakland, with 96.

 

Individually, the Angels did not have a player in the top 20 in GIDP in the AL. The AL leader was KC's Billy Butler with 28, followed by Boston's Dustin Pedroia and Houston's Jose Altuve with 24 each. Howie Kendrick was the Angels leader with 16 (tied for 23rd in the AL), followed by Erick Aybar with 14.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Stradling]

So comparing us to Oakland we hit into one extra double play every 5 or 6 games.

[ettin]

I don't like the idea of platooning at SS. I'd rather give Romine the 600 PA's and have Tejada or whomever be the utility IF. This also allows the Tejada to play 2B vs lefties and maybe let Howie go to LF and rest Hamilton.

 

I'm a fan of platooning if it is smart platooning. The A's have done this pretty well over the last two years. If Aybar could net a good return that includes a young, top-end pitching prospect and we can acquire a defensive-minded SS to platoon with Romine I'm good with it.

 

If the return is not solid enough then lets just continue with Aybar and see what happens.

[AZMike]

For all the talk about rally killing, the Angels were 22nd in MLB GIDP last year, grounding into 118 double plays. The Cardinals, who played in the World Series, led all of baseball with 160 GIDP. The AL leaders were Baltimore and Minnesota, grounding into 147 each. The fewest in MLB was Oakland, with 96.

 

Individually, the Angels did not have a player in the top 20 in GIDP in the AL. The AL leader was KC's Billy Butler with 28, followed by Boston's Dustin Pedroia and Houston's Jose Altuve with 24 each. Howie Kendrick was the Angels leader with 16 (tied for 23rd in the AL), followed by Erick Aybar with 14.

 

The Angels led the AL in GIDP's with 150

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=0&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=18,d

 

Pujols and Trumbo each hit into 18 GIDP's. Then Kendrick and Hamilton were tied for 3rd on the team with 16. 

Edited December 14, 2013 by AZMike

[ten ocho recon scout]

^marine layer. Probably some plate alignment issues too.

[Docwaukee]

Friese makes more than Bourjus did...and long term wasn't the wisest move. Trumbo did save cash...and at the same time brought in two pieces to potentially fill the rotation gap right now...and also allow them the ability to pursue someone like Garza. I'm actually quick shocked at the deal they were able to make for Trumbo, and I'm guessing the Halos were as well. They definitely sold high on him and were able to get some longer term pieces that also helped fill some immediate holes.

I agree with this.  I like Trumbo, but homeruns are one of the most over valued stats out there.  To be able to get cost controlled pitching, especially when you have almost none, for a guy that is a fan favorite doing a fan favorite thing is tough to do.