Angels waiting for SP price to drop + NO interest in Colon

[Tyler]

Dipoto looking like a fool for several seasons now.

[Inside Pitch]

Well Garza has a track record of being above league average. Last year when he went to Texas wasn't great, but no free agent pitcher is great. Hell, there is even risk in acquiring a guy like Price who was hurt last year. When the teams are looking at whether or not Garza or Santana are the best free agent pitchers in this years class, well needless to say it isn't a great class. I truly think year after year we will see free agent classes worsen and worsen, because teams are continuing to lock up talent.

 

His career ERA+ is 108.   Raw ERAs tell half the story -- he's been fortunate to pitch in parks that helped him and in front of strong defenses.  Matt Garza is a good pitcher made to look even better by his surroundings.

 

As it stands now what's he going to go for?  5/75?   Jered Weaver has likewise also pitched in a pitchers park and for most of his career in front of a good defense -- his career ERA+ is 127.  CJ Wilson pitched in Texas before coming to Anaheim, he's posted an ERA+ of 122 as a SP.  Both have been consistently healthy as well.

 

If the choice is to get Garza at 5/75 and run Shoemaker or some FA slop out there as the number 5 then I'd much rather them see them sign guys like Maholm, Baker etc etc and let Shoemaker have a real shot at the rotation.

 

At what point does this team accept that even in win now mode, it's chances at winning are slim?   At some point they need to consider making movies that will allow them to make more moves down the line.   Keep Kendrick, Keep Trumbo, sign the 2013 version of Ismael Valdez and Patt Rapp and go into 2014 hoping to bring in a haul for 2015 at the deadline.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

I suppose. But he's been awfully injury prone.

 

Thats just it -- the perception is that he's injury prone and yet -- in 8 seasons, he's managed 4 seasons where he's pitched at least 188 innings, one season where he pitched 170 (including time int he minors), and two other seasons where he managed at least 147 innings.   Garza in 8 seasons has had 4 seasons of at least 184 innings, one season where he pitched 170 (including time in the minors), and one season where he had 155 innings.

 

They are essentially the same guy from the standpoint of health.

[Inside Pitch]

If we have to give 5 years to one of these free agents I'd just as soon give it (yes, and the draft pick) to Ervin than Garza.

 

Ervin is the devil we know vs all the other guys, the devils we don't know. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

So it looks like we're getting Jeff Francis and Roy Oswalt. 

[jshep]

Hammel is a career 4.80 ERA, 1.440 WHIP pitcher.  He's this year's Joe Blanton.  I will be pissed if he's offered as a solution to out pitching woes.  He's more of the same.

 

So 2 years, 15 million it is!

Edited December 6, 2013 by jshep

[Troll Daddy]

If Billingsley doesn't work for you guys ... maybe Beckett will.

[jshep]

So this is the entire FA starting pitching market that remains:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/2014-mlb-free-agents.html

 

 

Alfredo Aceves (31)
Bronson Arroyo (37)
Dylan Axelrod (28)
Scott Baker (32)
Erik Bedard (35)
Travis Blackley (31)
A.J. Burnett (37)
Chris Capuano (35)
Bruce Chen (37)
Tyler Cloyd (27)
Bartolo Colon (41)
Gavin Floyd (31)
Jeff Francis (33)
Freddy Garcia (37)
Jon Garland (34)
Matt Garza (30)
Chad Gaudin (31)
Roy Halladay (37)
Jason Hammel (31)
Tommy Hanson (27)
Aaron Harang (36)
Jeremy Hefner (28)
Roberto Hernandez (33)
Daniel Hudson (26)
Ubaldo Jimenez (30)
Jair Jurrjens (28)
Jeff Karstens (31)
John Lannan (29)
Paul Maholm (32)
Shaun Marcum (32)
Jason Marquis (35)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (33)
James McDonald (29)
Jeff Niemann (31)
Sean O'Sullivan (26)
Roy Oswalt (35)
Felipe Paulino (30)
Mike Pelfrey (30)
Greg Reynolds (28)
Clayton Richard (30)
Ervin Santana (31)
Johan Santana (34)
Joe Saunders (33)
Kevin Slowey (30)
Masahiro Tanaka (25) - right to sign will be acquired via posting system for Japanese players
Edinson Volquez (30)
Tsuyoshi Wada (33)
Jake Westbrook (36)
Chien-Ming Wang (34)
Jerome Williams (32)
Suk-Min Yoon (27)
Barry Zito (36)

 

Beyond the top handful, that is...something.

Edited December 6, 2013 by jshep

[YouthofToday]

I highly doubt we land Tanaka (if new posting rules are correct) or Garza.

Realistically the team signs Hammel or similar pitcher and a bunch of reclamation projects to compete with Blanton and other internal options for the last spot.

Welcome to an 81 win season.

[Troll Daddy]

Garza is the best choice and he doesn't cost you a draft pick but are you willing to over pay him?

[Erstad Grit]

I still say Ubaldo and Colon makes us super competitive. 

[Greg_Bearringer]

I might write about this soon (probably should) but I am starting to get the feeling that the Angels are going to do something they've said they won't: go over the tax, trade Aybar or Trumbo, black mail a team to take Hamilton's contract-- somthing has to give.

[Greg_Bearringer]

Also: Roberto Hernadez: #5 Starter next year. Book it (as a strong possibility). 

[Jim]

I would take a chance on Billingsley, but as a number 5, where Richards would be the number 6. I don't trust insert name to be healthy or consistent, but his stuff was good enough to take a chance on.

It's a sad thought, but this will likely be the Angel narrative as we move through the remainder of this off-season. 

[Jim]

The dogs had like 8 starters going into spring last year and needed all of them plus.  I don't think they are gonna move any of them and they might still be in on Tanaka. 

I think the Dodgers might be interested in a Kendrick for Fife and another prospect type of deal. 

[Jim]

Not that I want to see that. I just wouldn't put it past the brain trust. 

[Angel Oracle]

Anyone else think that Dipoto tried to overcompensate for signing Blanton too soon and paying him probably $10 million more total then if he had been signed in February?    And that Dipoto is hesitant to sign ANY pitcher because of that? 

Edited December 6, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

I still say Ubaldo and Colon makes us super competitive. 

Maybe for a year, after that though, all bets are off.

[Brent Maguire]

Also: Roberto Hernadez: #5 Starter next year. Book it (as a strong possibility). 

If they end up getting a solid #3 guy,  you can sign Hernandez on a 1 year deal to compete with Shoemaker and possibly another guy for that 5th spot. It's not the route I would go but the market rate for starters is going to make it impossible to get 2 competent starters AND stay under the cap. 

 

Steamer is very optimistic about him next year although the other projections don't like him as much. I would guess he gives 175 innings of 4.5 ERA.

[Hubs]

If this is the case, I'd look for us to sign Roy Halladay and Johan Santana to minor league contracts.

 

They have five starting pitchers now: Weaver, Wilson, Richards, Blanton, and Shoemaker. Shoemaker is the most likely candidate in a minor league system where they have no other upper level starters who had ERA's under 5. 

[Mark68]

Anyone else think that Dipoto tried to overcompensate for signing Blanton too soon and paying him probably $10 million more total then if he had been signed in February?    And that Dipoto is hesitant to sign ANY pitcher because of that? 

There may be something to this.

 

Once bitten, twice shy.

[Hubs]

Here's an interesting list of FA Starters by MLB trade rumors.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/top-34-free-agent-starters.html

[Mark68]

Here's an interesting list of FA Starters by MLB trade rumors.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/top-34-free-agent-starters.html

I think the list can best be described as...underwhelming.

 

This is why I was really on board with giving Vargas the qualifying offer, because I wasn't sure who else on that list we'd really want.

[Hubs]

Of that list of 34 starters, here is who is still available:

 

1) Matt Garza (Why he's first, no idea, not my list)

 

2) Masahiro Tanaka

 

3) Ervin Santana

 

5) AJ Burnett

 

8) Bronson Arroyo

 

11) Paul Maholm

 

12) Roberto Hernandez

 

14) Ubaldo Jimenez

 

15) Bartolo Colon

 

19) Chris Capuano

 

20) Roy Halladay

 

22) Jason Hammel

 

23) Wandy Rodriguez

 

25) Joe Saunders

 

26) Jake Westbrook

 

28) Edison Volquez

 

29) Chad Gaudin

 

30) Mike Pelfrey

 

31) Shawn Marcum

 

32) Scott Baker

 

33) Colby Lewis

 

Others not on this list: Bruce Chen, Gavin Floyd, Jeff Francis, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Tommy Hanson, Aaron Harang, Daniel Hudson, Jair Jurrgens, John Lannan, Jason Marquis, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Jeff Neiman, Sean O'Sullivan, Roy Oswalt, Johan Santana, Tyuishi Wada, Jake Westbrook, Jerome Williams, and Barry Zito.

[kevinb]

I still say Ubaldo and Colon makes us super competitive. 

Really want to lose than number 11 draft pick huh?