Colon and Ulbado?

[Erstad Grit]

These 2 SP would make me stoked about the team and our chances.

 

I say forget the 150 mil it would take to get Tanaka and grab these two guys.

 

If they cost too much (not my money?????) trading HK for a prospect to free up the cash would be worth it. 

 

Weaver

Wilson

Jimenez

Colon

Richards

 

That is a World Series bound rotation. 

[Scott34]

I can't believe people seriously still want to give away picks.

[gotbeer]

Thing that scares me about Jimenez is that WHIP.  

 

His lowest Whip

2010 1.15

2009 1.23

2007 1.30

2013 1.33

[Chuck]

Thing that scares me about Jimenez is that WHIP.  

 

His lowest Whip

2010 1.15

2009 1.23

2007 1.30

2013 1.33

 

Jimenez WHIP in the second half was incredible. That's when things turned around for Jimenez as he made a change to his mechanics.

[Erstad Grit]

I can't believe people seriously still want to give away picks.

 

I really don't want Blanton in the rotation.  

[Greg_Bearringer]

The thing that scares me about Ubaldo is how awful he is. 1 half of a good season in the past three. 

[Brandon]

I wouldn't be opposed to it. I never mind giving up picks with baseball because of how unpredictable they are. You know what you're getting with a player (generally speaking) whereas you don't with a mid round selection.

I don't think we have the money to do this though.

[VariousCrap]

You have to say NO WAY to Ulbado because he will cost you the pick.  He simply is not good enough to warrant that.

 

At this point, I'm hoping for Colon and Arroyo.

 

I'm not happy about it, but I'll accept it.

[Scott34]

I really don't want Blanton in the rotation.  

 

Well if we continue down this path, it'll be 5 Blanton's in 2015.  You. Need. A. Farm. To. Win.

[Erstad Grit]

Well if we continue down this path, it'll be 5 Blanton's in 2015.  You. Need. A. Farm. To. Win.

 

Normally I would agree with you 100%. However our team is horribly structured with huge backloaded contracts which makes me think winning during the years 2016-2019 is going to be VERY unlikely. So as bad as it sounds going all in to win during 2014- 2015 (hoping Pujols and Hamilton rebound)  and being prepared to suck later makes the most sense to me. Keep in mind I was not a supporter of the V Wells, Pujols, Hamilton deals. 

[Erstad Grit]

Jimenez WHIP in the second half was incredible. That's when things turned around for Jimenez as he made a change to his mechanics.

 

One could easily argue he was the best pitcher in the MLB the second half. 

[NrM]

Normally I would agree with you 100%. However our team is horribly structured with huge backloaded contracts which makes me think winning during the years 2016-2019 is going to be VERY unlikely. So as bad as it sounds going all in to win during 2014- 2015 (hoping Pujols and Hamilton rebound)  and being prepared to suck later makes the most sense to me. Keep in mind I was not a supporter of the V Wells, Pujols, Hamilton deals. 

Except for one thing. We have Mike Trout. Do you really want to waste Trout's prime years?

 

Would be better off rebuilding now.

[Brent Maguire]

I like Ubaldo. Losing the draft pick for him absolutely sucks though.

I guess if we can't find any starters, I would be ok with signing him and losing the pick. It definitely seems like he figured something out in the 2nd half last year. If he provided 180 innings of 3.8 ERA and 170 K's, it might be worth losing the pick.

[Brandon]

Except for one thing. We have Mike Trout. Do you really want to waste Trout's prime years?

Would be better off rebuilding now.

With the talent and money invested, we aren't going to rebuild.

Backloaded contracts don't matter as it's an average salary that counts towards the cap.

[Erstad Grit]

Except for one thing. We have Mike Trout. Do you really want to waste Trout's prime years?

 

Would be better off rebuilding now.

 

In 2016 we will be paying Weaver, Pujols, and Hamilton 79 million dollars. In 2017 we will be paying Pujols/Hamilton 58 million. I'd rather take a shot now when getting production from these guys is still somewhat realistic. 

[WallyWorld]

god I hope Colon signs somewhere soon so we can stop with the 10 new threads about him every day.

[NrM]

With the talent and money invested, we aren't going to rebuild.

Backloaded contracts don't matter as it's an average salary that counts towards the cap.

 

And what happens if the angels finish 3rd again and pujols and hamilton continue to decline? Still no rebuild?

Just rinse and repeat every year until the team is too far gone in debt to even rebuild?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Poozy

[Brandon]

once they signed the monster contracts they were stuck for better or worse. rebuilding also negates what you attempted to do when you brought them and other high prices players in the first place.

retooling is an option, but not rebuilding unless you pull a Marlins and are able to dump significant salary. you're also only retooling during prime player production years....you're not going to rebuild when you think a great player has something in the tank, but can consider it when you anticipate their heavy decline years. thus, I'm not sure you're adding new significant debt since it's already established.

[Season Over]

Ubaldo would be a nice addition if he really is back, but he would likely be overpaid and losing another first round pick would be brutal.

[Greg_Bearringer]

I hate this part of the offseason. People waste pixels complaining about organizational flaws and making dramatic statements about how bad we are when all of their arguments will either be invalid or improved in a few weeks. 

[gotbeer]

Jimenez WHIP in the second half was incredible. That's when things turned around for Jimenez as he made a change to his mechanics.

 

To get to a 1.33 WHIP, if his second half was incredible, that would mean his first half was Bantonesque.  Not a good selling point, for a team that makes it a habit to take off the first half lately.

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

To get to a 1.33 WHIP, if his second half was incredible, that would mean his first half was Bantonesque. Not a good selling point, for a team that makes it a habit to take off the first half lately.

I agree with your last sentence. In the first half, he had a 1.49 WHIP and in the second half he had a 1.14 WHIP. Over the past three seasons, he's been decent (for a #4 or #5 type of pitcher) for half the season, and terrible for half of the season (usually the second half of the season).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7900/splits/?season=2013

Edited December 6, 2013 by AngelsAndRamsFan

[Angel Oracle]

I can't believe people seriously still want to give away picks.

Especially for pitchers with extreme torque in their wrist on the delivery, and that always makes Jimenez a candidate for the DL. 

[Hubs]

The issue here is the loss of a pick for a guy that had a pretty bad time of it in Cleveland until he somehow found it again starting around mid-June.

 

That could've been avoided had they simply tried to negotiate a three year extension with Santana for a lower AAV in the $8-9M dollar range, which he may have taken.

 

Or of course, just exercising his option, keeping him, not signing Joe Blanton for more money over two years, also not signing Hanson or Madson and letting Richards and Williams have the fifth spot. They could've waited until Madson or Brian Wilson proved they were ready before they signed either of them…They also could've signed a guy on a one year deal for third, but that's a personal pet peeve negated now that they acquired Grant Green for Callaspo and got out of his second year.

 

In 2013, the $$ spent on Blanton was 6.5 M plus 3.725M plus the $2M they gave Madson plus the $1M they paid of Santana's option = $13.2 which is the exact figure they'd gave paid for him anyway. DiPoto thought he was getting two starters for the price of one plus a reliever, but they got screwed here, and ended up spending $$$ for less production.

 

And they may have been in position to get a pick for Santana, instead of surrendering one for Jimenez. Or they could sign Jimenez instead and not sign Santana. And they'd have 7.5M more money to spend this year.

 

Anyway you look at it, the Blanton/Hanson/Madson v. Santana or Haren was a bad deal for so many reasons.

[Angel Oracle]

Dipoto the chick (see Don't Trade Trumbo thread) is in over her head.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Angel Oracle