Angels not shopping Trumbo

[vlad27]

I'm ok with this - let's keep the young homegrown inexpensive power hitter unless we find a really good match for SP- we shouldn't just trade him just to make a move .

Nothin wrong keeping some players around and maybe possibly build some team chemistry - a lot of unnecessary turnover isn't always good .

[YouthofToday]

It is nearly impossible to find two quality starting pitchers through free agency for $15 million a year.

If we go over in 2014, and this matters to the owner, what are "substantial" cuts for 2015 even mean?

Sure, we have $30 million coming off the books for Wells, Blanton and Burnett yet:

-Trout is going to get a phenomenal salary for his first arbitration year. $10 million + isn't out of the question.

-Freese, Trumbo, Frieri, Conger and others are all entering arbitration or will probably require raises.

We should probably set aside $20 million at least for arb increases.

By cuts do you mean no FA signings after 2014? Dumping Trumbo and others?

This organization is unbelievable.

[Inside Pitch]

Nah, the board will complain about that too.  Posts will be all about how he is avoiding the media because he is a (insert name here)  or because he isn't going to do anything.

 

 

Pissing off this board is meaningless.  Letting every other MLB team and agent know what your thinking can crush a guy at the negotiation table.

[Inside Pitch]

I'm ok with this - let's keep the young homegrown inexpensive power hitter unless we find a really good match for SP- we shouldn't just trade him just to make a move .

Nothin wrong keeping some players around and maybe possibly build some team chemistry - a lot of unnecessary turnover isn't always good .

 

 

Yeah, lets keep the rally killing out machine, he might hit a run and run prevention is overrated anyway.

[Stradling]

IP, do you really think that is what he is doing? Do you think he is showing his true hand? I find that very unlikely. If he was, I am guessing he would have been fired before he got back to his office. We are all upset that what he has done to date hasn't given us close to the results we want, but that doesn't mean we should be ignorant to enough to believe what he is saying to the press about his intentions.

[Capital_Dave]

Wait.... 

Did Jerry Dipoto just tell ALL of MLB that he's only looking to trade Howie Kendrick?   Call this posturing if you will, but doesn't a comment like that cut off your bargaining power with one of your other players?

 

Wasn't the plan to TRADE for pitching?

 

Speechless.

 

Actually I look at this quote the opposite way: as a (rather transparent) attempt to inflate Trumbo's trade value by making him "untouchable."

[Inside Pitch]

IP, do you really think that is what he is doing? Do you think he is showing his true hand? I find that very unlikely. If he was, I am guessing he would have been fired before he got back to his office. We are all upset that what he has done to date hasn't given us close to the results we want, but that doesn't mean we should be ignorant to enough to believe what he is saying to the press about his intentions.

 

I think he's shown his true hand with every move he's made.   You may want to step carefully with your usage of the word ignorant while defending a GM that's shown himself woefully inept at just about every facet of his job because I find it ignorant that people continue to put their heads in the sand when it comes to Dipoto.  

 

Jerry Dipoto has proven one thing to me -- He was completely in over his head when he was hired to run a high payroll/big market team.  

 

Fact of the matter is that he is always talking, most of what he says makes fans feel all warm and fuzzy and is designed to make us believe the guy has a clue then he goes out and makes moves that spit in the face of what he just said.  He may have been better off running a low payroll team and being forced to adhere to the things he claimed he believed in.  He would be well served by just shutting the **** up more often.

 

I'd be ignorant if I still believed he was capable of running in the same league as guys like Beane, Epstien, Cherrington and other saber inclined GMs -- much less negotiating with them.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

Actually I look at this quote the opposite way: as a (rather transparent) attempt to inflate Trumbo's trade value by making him "untouchable."

 

The opposite of what?  

 

My comments weren't aimed at what he's claiming with Trumbo -- but rather how his comments impact his ability to negotiate with Kendrick.

 

Like I said -- I just wish he said less.   

[James]

I'm sorry..but Dipoto has to be the biggest idiot correlated with management that I've seen in a long time. He's reaching Reagins level now. No craftiness, no awareness of how other teams perceive our team/trade chips, panics and makes non-logical moves (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here and saying he panics when he makes these moves, or else..I don't even know what to say). He has 2 months to prove me wrong or I'm done.

You're not sorry so why start your over reactive rant with that? Hopefully he reads this and realizes that you will be done if he doesn't shape up and gets his act together, right? 

 

People need to relax and see how it plays out. I never thought we were going to get a front line starter that everyone so desires. It would always be nice to acquire one but it isn't at all necessary to have a productive off season. Acquiring a couple mid rotation guys will round the roster out just fine, still plenty of arms left that meet that bill.  

[YouthofToday]

If the organization had not signed the Albert Pujols and Hamilton we would have the resources (and potential prospects) to get the starting pitching we need.

So far those two players have hardly been assets.

[HaloCory22]

I haven't read through this thread but I'm pretty sure this is just a ploy to raise his value.

[Stradling]

I think he's shown his true hand with every move he's made. You may want to step carefully with your usage of the word ignorant while defending a GM that's shown himself woefully inept at just about every facet of his job because I find it ignorant that people continue to put their heads in the sand when it comes to Dipoto.

Jerry Dipoto has proven one thing to me -- He was completely in over his head when he was hired to run a high payroll/big market team.

Fact of the matter is that he is always talking, most of what he says makes fans feel all warm and fuzzy and is designed to make us believe the guy has a clue then he goes out and makes moves that spit in the face of what he just said. He may have been better off running a low payroll team and being forced to adhere to the things he claimed he believed in. He would be well served by just shutting the **** up more often.

I'd be ignorant if I still believed he was capable of running in the same league as guys like Beane, Epstien, Cherrington and other saber inclined GMs -- much less negotiating with them.

I'm not even saying he is as capable as we all thought he was when he was hired. I won't even disagree that he talks a better game than he produces, I don't even think that is up for debate. My main issue with you criticizing him about his quote to the press is that you know better than that. You know all GM's talk out of their ass and play their cards close to the vest. To take what he said at face value is silly, and you know that. Once again, I am as disappointed as everyone else on here with what has transpired, but that doesn't mean I can't look at a quote and smell bullshit.

[Inside Pitch]

I'm not even saying he is as capable as we all thought he was when he was hired. I won't even disagree that he talks a better game than he produces, I don't even think that is up for debate. My main issue with you criticizing him about his quote to the press is that you know better than that. You know all GM's talk out of their ass and play their cards close to the vest. To take what he said at face value is silly, and you know that. Once again, I am as disappointed as everyone else on here with what has transpired, but that doesn't mean I can't look at a quote and smell bullshit.

 

Yeah well..  I looked at that quote and I smelled stupid.  

 

Whatever, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think but, you'd have to be pretty dense to think other GM's and that agents aren't looking to take advantage of what he is saying to their benefit.  You know damn well that JD's comments were aimed at the fan base -- "Oh don't worry homers, your golden boy HR machine isn't being shopped".  Whatever.   He should care less about popular opinion and pay more mind to maximizing his potential return on the few remaining assets he still has..   Please tell me what if anything could be gained by his having gone on record the way he did?  He does realize that everyone in MLB just saw Morneau sign for cheap and that unlike Trumbo, he can actually get on base.   Upping Trumbo's value while shitting on Howie's makes zero sense.

 

And humor me -- you keep saying you are disappointed but at what exactly?  You seemingly toe the line with every move the Angels make or don't make even when you claim to "be upset".  I mean, in essence you just said you don't think he's done well but you have an issue with him being criticized..  I'm not sure who anointed you defender of Dipoto, but you best pack a lunch.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Stradling]

Pretty simple IP, I am disappointed with results. I also believe that if JD was the one that truly wanted Albert and Hamilton and Arte wasn't heavily involved then Arte would have fired JD. Hell he fired Reagins for Wells, why wouldn't he fire JD for two contracts that are considerably worse at face value. I am not going to sit here and second guess decisions like trading for Greinke or Freese. One other thing I am upset or disappointed in is the simple fact that since we have the two big time contracts the team has no choice but to go all in in a sense. You don't invest that kind of money and then take a few years off from competing. But I'll ask you this, do you think it is Arte that wants to compete right now, or JD? Who do you think is less patient? I say that and I would rather have Arte than most owners, but he is far from infallible. So there you go, that is what I am disappointed with.

[Inside Pitch]

Pretty simple IP, I am disappointed with results. I also believe that if JD was the one that truly wanted Albert and Hamilton and Arte wasn't heavily involved then Arte would have fired JD. Hell he fired Reagins for Wells, why wouldn't he fire JD for two contracts that are considerably worse at face value. I am not going to sit here and second guess decisions like trading for Greinke or Freese. One other thing I am upset or disappointed in is the simple fact that since we have the two big time contracts the team has no choice but to go all in in a sense. You don't invest that kind of money and then take a few years off from competing. But I'll ask you this, do you think it is Arte that wants to compete right now, or JD? Who do you think is less patient? I say that and I would rather have Arte than most owners, but he is far from infallible. So there you go, that is what I am disappointed with.

 

Results being the win loss record?.... but not the route we took to get there?    

 

You seemingly are willing to give Dipoto rope due to the "Arte factor"   My stance is that there is enough he's done outside of those moves to question his ability to run a franchise.  Forgive me but I still remember how people used to make excuses for Bavasi claiming the "Disney factor".

 

Jerry Dipoto has been walking and quacking like a duck for a while now.

[Adam]

Dipoto is awful.

[Stradling]

I miss Stoneman, but I was frustrated by him as well. I was hoping Dipoto would be like him, only with the ability to occasionally make the big trade, something Stoneman never did.

[bloodbrother]

Pretty simple IP, I am disappointed with results. I also believe that if JD was the one that truly wanted Albert and Hamilton and Arte wasn't heavily involved then Arte would have fired JD. Hell he fired Reagins for Wells, why wouldn't he fire JD for two contracts that are considerably worse at face value. I am not going to sit here and second guess decisions like trading for Greinke or Freese. One other thing I am upset or disappointed in is the simple fact that since we have the two big time contracts the team has no choice but to go all in in a sense. You don't invest that kind of money and then take a few years off from competing. But I'll ask you this, do you think it is Arte that wants to compete right now, or JD? Who do you think is less patient? I say that and I would rather have Arte than most owners, but he is far from infallible. So there you go, that is what I am disappointed with.

 

Yep, and that's my issue and worry with things. This kind of mentality leads to more questionable moves that are geared towards the NOW without looking towards the future. The FO has tunnel vision on this and have to try and justify the 2 big investments they made. It just leads to more and more moves that hurt the long term outlook of this team/franchise

 

It's starting to look like Dipoto is in over his head, and I'd say that Arte isn't without blame. We've heard from enough reputable writers to at least say that he's had his hand in some of the decisions/non-decisions baseball wise, and that's not a good thing. I love that this team has an owner who cares and WANTS to win, but he really needs to let his baseball people do the baseball stuff

[bloodbrother]

I miss Stoneman, but I was frustrated by him as well. I was hoping Dipoto would be like him, only with the ability to occasionally make the big trade, something Stoneman never did.

 

I took Stoneman for granted. I was very frustrated with him during his tenure and his lack of trades both in the offseason and during the deadline, but I'll gladly take the Stoneman era back over what we are currently seeing. At least back then the team had great pitching, great depth, made the playoffs and had a good farm system. They were a well oiled machine for years. After 2002 they never did reach another WS, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. Key is to just keep getting in and see what happens.

 

Halos have lost some key contributors from their farm over the past few years, and it's really hurting them right now since they are seeking cost-controlled arms that nobody wants to trade(why would they?)

Edited December 4, 2013 by bloodbrother

[Inside Pitch]

I miss Stoneman, but I was frustrated by him as well. I was hoping Dipoto would be like him, only with the ability to occasionally make the big trade, something Stoneman never did.

 

Meh -- I always said people didn't realize how good he was.   People love the big trades.  Well, we have been trading prospects for win now scenarios for years now.  Look at where we are.   Bill Stoneman's risk averse ways may have been frustrating, but he had a long term plan he wouldn't sway from.

 

Stoney was about continued success -- like Billy Beane he understood that the playoffs were a crap shoot, but getting there was main goal.   A lot of Angels fans used to argue that anything but a WS win was a failure.

Now we see what true failure feels like

[Mudville]

Actually I look at this quote the opposite way: as a (rather transparent) attempt to inflate Trumbo's trade value by making him "untouchable."

The Twinkie effect. You could get them any day you wanted and sales were tepid. Once it was announced they were not going to be there was a run on them end shelves were emptied.

Teams in need of a Trumbo type player are now going to have to negotiate harder for him, they will have to make the first call. It is a better strategy than cold calling with a product everyone thinks they can get for half off.

[Mudville]

Meh -- I always said people didn't realize how good he was.   People love the big trades.  Well, we have been trading prospects for win now scenarios for years now.  Look at where we are.   Bill Stoneman's risk averse ways may have been frustrating, but he had a long term plan he wouldn't sway from.

 

Stoney was about continued success -- like Billy Beane he understood that the playoffs were a crap shoot, but getting there was main goal.   A lot of Angels fans used to argue that anything but a WS win was a failure.

Now we see what true failure feels like

Stoneman had his own failures as a GM, it was not like he didn't pick up Guillen, Colon (one good year), Escobar (always on the DL), Gary Matthews Jr (one good catch) but you guys wipe that slate clean because he held onto Woods, Mcpherson, even Kotchman along with a slew of other failed prospects while a pennant was in the Angels grasp if but for one mid season trade.

Rate Stoneman on what the Angels did in 2000-2001 seasons and you would now be screaming he should be fired. Hehad a flexible budget, lots of high draft picks in the minors and all the time in the world to rebuild the team. None of the luxuaries Dipoto has had to work with.

As for the Stoneman/Beane comparison, just how obtuse of arguments are you willing to make? Beane was constantly trading resources from his roster and minors while Stoneman was buying them on the open market. Beane held a bottom line Budget while the Angels skyrocketed to a top 5 payroll team. The two have nothing in common when it comes to resource management.

[mtangelsfan]

Please, Stoneman had the team in the playoffs almost every season, that is how you rate success.  Sure he wasn't perfect, far from it.  I don't think you will find a GM that was.  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if Arte had his hand in Wells, Pujols and Hamilton, he very well could have had his hand in the GMJ signing and that might be why Stoneman decided to retire.

 

He also left the team and the farm healthy. 

[Stradling]

Please, Stoneman had the team in the playoffs almost every season, that is how you rate success. Sure he wasn't perfect, far from it. I don't think you will find a GM that was. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if Arte had his hand in Wells, Pujols and Hamilton, he very well could have had his hand in the GMJ signing and that might be why Stoneman decided to retire.

He also left the team and the farm healthy.

I couldn't agree more.

[ettin]

Wait.... 

Did Jerry Dipoto just tell ALL of MLB that he's only looking to trade Howie Kendrick?   Call this posturing if you will, but doesn't a comment like that cut off your bargaining power with one of your other players?

 

Wasn't the plan to TRADE for pitching?

 

Speechless.

 

IP,

 

I read the article and it was the author who suggested Howie Kendrick not Dipoto. More importantly at the end Dipoto is quoted as saying that you can never know what will materialize when you are talking and acknowledged that a deal for Trumbo could potentially happen.

 

I know you are frustrated but now you are starting to read things that aren't there.

 

EDIT: If there is any message being sent it sounds more to me like Dipoto is broadcasting the idea that he considers Trumbo more valuable than the offers that he may or may not have received from other teams. I read some of the follow-on posts after this one (first time reading this thread I think) and Stradling does have one point about the fact that many GM's (and especially agents) use the media to send broad messages out to other GM's, teams, and agents.

 

Edited December 4, 2013 by ettin