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IGNORED

Michael Moore


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What I find particularly disturbing is how obsessed so many Americans are with their guns. I mean, really? Why do we need so many goddamn guns? Why do we need any? The 2nd Amendment was written in the 18th century just after the Revolutionary War - a very different context. The point of it was so American citizens could defend themselves in case of a tyrannical government, like the British Empire. This is a very unlikely scenario in today's world. WE DON'T NEED A MILITIA!

That is all good and well, but what happens when some other political group with an agenda proposes to say that the first ammendment is archiac and no longer applicable? Or the 4th? Sorry, but once we start ceding rights for the allusion of safety and security, we will deserve neither rights, freedom, or security. Yeah, I am taking liberties with Benjamin Franklin's famous warning, but it is true. The Bill of Rights is sacrosanct. They are so for a reason. You seriously want to give flawed politicians carte blanch with the Bill of Rights? Sure, they have proved so trustworthy over the years. :rolleyes:

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Nor does it last forever.  Nor is alcohol or cigarettes protected by the constitution.

Wrong. Just try to ban all alcohol (again) and see if you don't just run up against the Twenty-First Amendment.

That was a really, really, REALLY bad argument you posed there.

That is all.

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Wrong. Just try to ban all alcohol (again) and see if you don't just run up against the Twenty-First Amendment.

That was a really, really, REALLY bad argument you posed there.

That is all.

Cap use is always so effective.  The argument is the same, making the stupid argument that banning certain types of guns is not taking them away is the poor argument.  They are effectively the same thing.

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Yay, semantics!  "Taking away" implies that there is something to be taken.  Now, if you were to say "the want to restrict what types of guns we can buy!" then you have a semantically valid argument, but that doesn't get people nearly as fired up as the "taking away" thing does.

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Yay, semantics!  "Taking away" implies that there is something to be taken.  Now, if you were to say "the want to restrict what types of guns we can buy!" then you have a semantically valid argument, but that doesn't get people nearly as fired up as the "taking away" thing does.

Kind of like framing the argument by saying, "they aren't taking guns away, they are just banning sales of certain types of guns".

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And yet, restricting what you can buy is in fact taking something away.

 

 

No it isn't.  You can't take away something somebody doesn't already have.  That leaves you with a negative.  Not only is that semantics, it's basic mathematics.  

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Kind of like framing the argument by saying, "they aren't taking guns away, they are just banning sales of certain types of guns".

 

 

That is accurate.  Now if somebody said "they're taking away the types of guns we can buy and thereby taking certain types of guns away from us!" I'd be a lot closer to agreeing with it, although that would make a terrible slogan or sign.  

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That is all good and well, but what happens when some other political group with an agenda proposes to say that the first ammendment is archiac and no longer applicable? Or the 4th? Sorry, but once we start ceding rights for the allusion of safety and security, we will deserve neither rights, freedom, or security. Yeah, I am taking liberties with Benjamin Franklin's famous warning, but it is true. The Bill of Rights is sacrosanct. They are so for a reason. You seriously want to give flawed politicians carte blanch with the Bill of Rights? Sure, they have proved so trustworthy over the years. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Yay, slippery slope!  Because you can never knock over just one domino, you have to knock over every damn one.

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When the left complain about about America they hate it. When the right complain about America they want to make it better.

I don't think he hates America but he seems to think we do nothing right as a country. Why would he suggest for pics of murdered children to be shown? How is the NRA responsible for 1 human's actions?

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I don't know why it has to come down to right vs left. The whole issue of violence, and gun violence particularly, ends up being framed to support a pet issue on someone's agenda. Blame the guns, blame the video games, blame the movies, blame the religious zealotry but by all means never mention that humans are by nature cruel and violent and not everyone is able to retain the ability to suppress this.

 

Showing the pictures will only fan the emotions and end any possibility of an intelligent debate. Maybe that's what Moore wants. Can't sell documentaries about subjects that don't keep us on edge.

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I think "shall not be infringed" trumps all and I'm always very suspicious of anyone who advocates bans or restrictions on peaceful, law abiding people.

 

Not to get nitpicky, but one part of the second amendment is very obviously dependent on the other part of it based on simple sentence structure and logic alone. "Shall not be infringed" is merely a formality, otherwise there would not even be a need for the amendment to be delineated, would there? Well, unless of course it were to state something along the lines that it shall be infringed, of course.

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