Phil Hughes gets 3 - year deal from Twins (24 million)

[Marsaka]

How do you know they're balking at the going market rates? Link?

 

Perhaps they've never had interest in Hughes from the beginning. He's as about a sure thing as Blanton and Hanson was last season. You want that?

 

 

How do you know they aren't balking at going market rates?  Link.

[Marsaka]

4 page thread about another team getting Phil F**king Hughes.

 

Angelswin.

 

The thread is about the angels rotation being in bad shape, more so than phil hughes.  What exactly is your point?  You want everyone to stop talking baseball unless the player is on the angels or something?

[Mudville]

Hughes is a lousy pitcher and did nothing to deserve a 3 year contract. If he had the Yankees would have beat that deal without thinking twice, they need pitching as much as any other team and know him better than any scouting report.

[tdawg87]

The thread is about the angels rotation being in bad shape, more so than phil hughes.  What exactly is your point?  You want everyone to stop talking baseball unless the player is on the angels or something?

 

 

Wow, you posted a burden of proof fallacy and a strawman in consecutive posts.

 

That is quite impressive.

Edited December 1, 2013 by tdawg87

[arch stanton]

We may have had a "really good lineup" last year but if you go back and search the gameday threads, you'll see plenty of times when the team was in a two-run deficit in the fifth inning and the game was effectively over.  As for the bigger names - Garza was worse than Hughes when he went to Texas last year.  I'm not excited about getting yet another pitcher that sucks in Texas, our roster is already full of them.  This team is putting itself in the position of having to get Tanaka, and that's a crapshoot at best.  

 

I was excited when the team got Dipoto for GM but that excitement has faded.  Much of that come from the Blanton signing; that was just horrible.  There's still a lot of offseason left to change my mind, but as it sits right now it looks like Dipoto is in way over his head.  

I'm not advocating. Just pointing out the pretty clear direction they've chosen. I have no interest in Garza. I don't think he has the stones to be a winner. I think they'll do what it takes to get at least one of Tanaka and Jimenez. Maybe that does it. Maybe it doesn't. I don't think the CBT or the loss of draft pick will stop them. 

 

The lineup as it stands replaces Shuck/Bourjos with Calhoun. Replaces Callaspo with Freese. Conger will get more early AB's Pujols, Hamilton, and Aybar can all be expected to hit better. All Dipoto hate aside, that should be a really good lineup if it stays intact. Is this team 15 wins better? We shall see.

[Mudville]

The lineup as it stands replaces Shuck/Bourjos with Calhoun. Replaces Callaspo with Freese. Conger will get more early AB's Pujols, Hamilton, and Aybar can all be expected to hit better. All Dipoto hate aside, that should be a really good lineup if it stays intact. Is this team 15 wins better? We shall see.

Well to get those 15 wins you need only to replace Mr. 2-14 with his 20 games and 132 innings of suck with a league average pitcher and you are more than half way there. That guy is not Phil Hughes.

[eligrba]

How bad must the Twins be to sign two pitchers the Angels passed on?  Hope the fans enjoy that rotation over 162 games.  Wow......

 

Maybe Blanton taught them something.

[Inside Pitch]

How bad must the Twins be to sign two pitchers the Angels passed on?  Hope the fans enjoy that rotation over 162 games.  Wow......

 

Maybe Blanton taught them something.

 

 

You mean the same Twins that signed two guys last year who both outperformed Blanton and Hanson?    

 

Terry Ryan can GM circles around Jerry Dipoto.  Hell, he was even able to get an actual frontline SP prospect for Denard Span...

[tdawg87]

Yeah we can't really make fun of the Twins considering they have arguably the best minor league system in baseball and we have......um, yeah.

[xboom28x]

I would love to rebuild and get exciting prospects that are a few years away from being possible major league All-Stars. But, Arte won't do it. As much as we want DiPoto to make better moves to get these more promising prospects, it just isn't going to happen. DiPoto is capable of trading for prospects. I don't know that he is capable of trading for players that are ready to produce now.

[yvangelfan]

Thank you Twins

[Mudville]

You mean the same Twins that signed two guys last year who both outperformed Blanton and Hanson?    

 

Terry Ryan can GM circles around Jerry Dipoto.  Hell, he was even able to get an actual frontline SP prospect for Denard Span...

The Twins have run circles around the drain the last three years pulling last place finishes. and 60 win seasons.  Whatever Ryan is doing it better start showing in the win columns.

[Inside Pitch]

The Twins have run circles around the drain the last three years pulling last place finishes. and 60 win seasons.  Whatever Ryan is doing it better start showing in the win columns.

 

Ryan was brought back in like December of 2011.   Like Tdawg pointed out -- he's actually been rebuilding the farm system. 

Edited December 1, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Docwaukee]

I would love to rebuild and get exciting prospects that are a few years away from being possible major league All-Stars. But, Arte won't do it. As much as we want DiPoto to make better moves to get these more promising prospects, it just isn't going to happen. DiPoto is capable of trading for prospects. I don't know that he is capable of trading for players that are ready to produce now.

I feel like this is true and probably why we didn't see prospects in return for Bourjos.  If they are gonna attempt to play for the next two years, at least we may see a couple of good pitchers come our way this offseason and they will be fun to watch

[Mudville]

The Angels could win the division with a couple of good pitching additions. Phil Hughes is not that kind of addition.

[stormngt]

Who of Trumbo, Aybar and Kendrick can the Angels not afford to move?

And again, $8M for Hughes means

sayonara to Tanaka

With bourjos gone we take a hit losing any of the three. We may need to trade one out of necessity but it will hurt offensively losing any of those three. It will hurt defensively losing Kendrick.

[Inside Pitch]

The Angels could win the division with a couple of good pitching additions. Phil Hughes is not that kind of addition.

 

Phil Hughes is a career ERA+ 95 pitcher while having pitched his career in a park that hurts his skill set..   He's a guy capable of throwing a league average ERA, and likely much better than that in Anaheim.  Given the Angels have lost Vargas and have added payroll -- a guy at 8 mil who is capable of of delivering league average performance would have been nice.   It's really not that hard.  

 

Steamer projects Hughes to put up a 3.87 ERA and a 4.01 FIP..   Bronson Arroyo who seems to have a bigger following despite looking to cost more is projected to put up a 4.31 ERA..   Ubaldo Jimenez who would cost the team even more and a would also cost a draft pick is projected to put up a 3.88 ERA.  

 

He wasn't viewed as a savior by anyone -- he is a solid buy low candidate, but whatever, the team clearly has it's own vision of what it can do.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Mudville]

Blanton was a career ERA 95+ and steamer is a big pile of steaming projections that rarely come through. If you are looking at buying low you don't buy three years, you buy two and maybe offer an option season with a low buy out. Ryan out bid himself on this one.

[xboom28x]

Hughes at Angel Stadium over his career: 14.2IP 12ER 8BB 10K 7.36ERA 1.64WHIP

 

But ya, he projects to pitch well at Angel Stadium.

Edited December 1, 2013 by xboom28x

[Inside Pitch]

Blanton was a career ERA 95+ and steamer is a big pile of steaming projections that rarely come through. If you are looking at buying low you don't buy three years, you buy two and maybe offer an option season with a low buy out. Ryan out bid himself on this one.

 

You are talking out your ass.  I'm all for differing opinions but you're just talking out your ass.    The last time Blanton posted an ERA+ over 88 was in 2009.   No projection system is ever perfect -- but Steamer's actually been very solid and a better baseline than some guy spouting opinions as facts which is all some people ever do.

 

Three years 24 mil for a SP capable of delivering a league average ERA is chump change in my opinion.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Docwaukee]

i have a hard time casting stones at this move, but most of that is based on my opinion of what I think Hughes will be able to do with a change of scenery.  Again, I have no problem passing on this if it means the halos intend on bringing in someone better and spending is not an issue. 

 

If we sign Arroyo or Feldman or any other mediocre back end of the rotation guy, then I would have preferred Hughes be that guy.  If money is an issue, then we missed a decent value here.

[YouthofToday]

Is there an "untradeable" pitching contract Arte is targeting ala Vernon Wells?

[Docwaukee]

kevin brown

[Mudville]

You are talking out your ass.  I'm all for differing opinions but you're just talking out your ass.    The last time Blanton posted an ERA+ over 88 was in 2009.   No projection system is ever perfect -- but Steamer's actually been very solid and a better baseline than some guy spouting opinions as facts which is all some people ever do.

 

Three years 24 mil for a SP capable of delivering a league average ERA is chump change in my opinion.

Hughes is not career league average even by your own statement that he pitches to a 95 ERA+ (last season 78 ERA+). Now if you want to talk about blowing smoke up people's ass about how valuable the guy is then maybe we take the last four years as a starter.

 

176.1 innings pitched 100 ERA+

74.2 innings pitched 74 ERA+

181.1 innings pitched 100 ERA+

145.2 innings pitched 78 ERA+

 

That is not a reliable pitcher league average pticher, it is a guy that puts out maybe 5 innings a start. Not a guy that you give 3 year contracts to. We can disagree but it still doesn't make your argument right.

[Docwaukee]

Is there an "untradeable" pitching contract Arte is targeting ala Vernon Wells?

 

it's interesting that you mention this actually. 

 

Probably only Sabathia, and Cliff Lee fit the criteria at this point. 

5 years from now, the Felix and Verlander deal won't look so good.  Greinke, Hamels, Cain and Wainright are candidates as well although not yet.

 

The vast majority of albatross type contracts are to position players.