"Championship caliber teams must be 8 or 9 deep in SP"

[Blarg]

The concept, Arch, is that beyond your starting five you need depth to cover injuries which happen every year to every club. That depth is not necessarily on the 25 man roster but it needs to be there to start the season otherwise you may find no options as the season progresses to fill holes. But it does not mean you need to carry nine starters in your rotation and bullpen, just have them in the availble through the organization to start the season.

If you look at most teams on BBREF you will see over the course of the season most will use about 20 different arms. Some of these guys are five game fill ins but they are there for different reasons at different parts of the season.

[Blarg]

I understand Bourjos wouldn't have brought back a SP, but what about a RP? Then you could have saved the money spend on Joe Smith and put it towards SP.

Trading Bourjos for a relief pitcher would have been a resource waste. You are not getting a quality closer for him so everything second tier you can buy. The Angels could not buy a better third baseman in the free agent market so the trade made sense. Edited November 25, 2013 by Eric Notti

[arch stanton]

are you being argumentative for the sake of it, or do you really not understand?

 

the point is a team has to have SP depth beyond the starting 5.  Guys they can count on for quality starts when one of the starters goes down (which is inevitable).  The Angels didn't have that depth last season and it bit them in the ass, and from where I'm standing, they're not close to having that depth now.

I dare you to find a team with 4 extra starters who the can depend on for a quality start.

[Blarg]

See my post Arch, it is not about four quality but serviceable arms short term in case of emergency.

[arch stanton]

I've been following baseball for 41 years. I get the concept. The concept I don't get is calling for some arbitrary number of a vague concept and calling it a must.

[WallyWorld]

I've been following baseball for 41 years. I get the concept. The concept I don't get is calling for some arbitrary number of a vague concept and calling it a must.

 

you're getting hung up semantics.  the idea is that you need to have a few options beyond your starting 5.

[Cdaniel]

I dare you to find a team with 4 extra starters who the can depend on for a quality start.

Cardinals.

[Blarg]

I've been following baseball for 41 years. I get the concept. The concept I don't get is calling for some arbitrary number of a vague concept and calling it a must.

I think Scioscia has based this number on what his experiences were as a Dodger as a pennant and World Series winner and with Angels in similar situations. Over the course of the year things happen and you have to have depth. The four extra arms are not always reliable to be on their game once the season begins and they also suffer attrition in the minors. So of the four extra you may have one, maybe two that can help the ball club when needed. Like Lackey did in 2002. But there needs to be that depth to be there when you need it.

[arch stanton]

you're getting hung up semantics.  the idea is that you need to have a few options beyond your starting 5.

Of course you do. But they have to be either in the bullpen like Williams or in the minors. How do you propose they fix that before they get a starting 5?

[WallyWorld]

Of course you do. But they have to be either in the bullpen like Williams or in the minors. How do you propose they fix that before they get a starting 5?

 

i agree, they still have to worry about the actual starting 5.  My point is, I see a lot of posts on here (and even Alden Gonzalez for that matter) talking about adding 2 SP and then calling it an offseason.  Again, from where I'm standing, that puts them in the same position as last year, with basically no depth.  I think there is still work to be done.  Hopefully a trade for a SP can include a minor league SP talent who is close to being ready.

[arch stanton]

On the ML roster, I don't think they can find a better 6th starter/long man that Williams. His ability and willingness to accept the role makes him valuable.

[arch stanton]

i agree, they still have to worry about the actual starting 5.  My point is, I see a lot of posts on here (and even Alden Gonzalez for that matter) talking about adding 2 SP and then calling it an offseason.  Again, from where I'm standing, that puts them in the same position as last year, with basically no depth.  I think there is still work to be done.  Hopefully a trade for a SP can include a minor league SP talent who is close to being ready.

That's still a crap shoot. I'd rather wait for ST and see how our minor leaguers look before trading for others. 

[Palomar]

2002 RP > SP: Not typical way to championship but got the job done.

[NrM]

There wasn't a deal to be had where Bourjos could be packaged for a starting pitcher. Dipoto worked the phones! That's why he was sent for a 3B. A position the Angels wanted to upgrade this offseason.

 

If that's the case then you hold onto him until teams become interested. There was no rush to make such a move this early in the off season.

 

I think we all agree the defense was a disaster this year? Would've made more sense in trading Calhoun, who probably has the highest trade value he'll ever have, and held onto Bourjos.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Poozy

[T.G.]

The Angels need five guys who are ambidextrous.  That will make them ten deep.

[Hubs]

Angels are better today than they were on Thursday if only because they added a starting 3B and a solid reliever. I don't like that it cost them a former first round pick, but Grichuck wasn't exactly tearing it up, the way even Bourjos did when he was in the minors.

 

They dealt from a position of strength for a position of weakness. I also highly doubt they trade Trumbo. The only position of strength left is 2B because they acquired a hitter and have a defensive orientated guy in Romine to back up. Also at C where  Iannetta and Conger may be one of the best Catching duo's in the majors. Maybe they can acquire Romine's brother if they trade Iannetta. 

 

As for SP, maybe they should plan on Williams being the fifth starter and sign a guy like Arroyo. That should put them near or at the CBT limit without any more trades. They could also take a flyer on one Mr. Barry Zito or Mr. Phil Hughes on a low dollar deal with incentives. Just because they tried last season to get innings eaters and picked the wrong guy (Santana is an innings eater and could've been had for what they paid Blanton and Hanson plus Ryan Madson). They could've kept him and stuck with a Rotation of Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Santana, Richards/Williams. Not that bad.

 

Not the depth they pictured but young controllable pitching is very highly sought after and they don't have the assets to bring that back. Should they somehow trade Kendrick for a guy like Zimmer from the Royals, Sanchez from the Jays, Odorrozi from the Rays, then they're golden. Should they decide to break the bank for a guy like Tanaka they're golden.