Brad Ziegler It pays to cheat...Thanks owners, for encouraging PED use

[HBMike]

Brad Ziegler â€@BradZiegler3m

It pays to cheat...Thanks, owners, for encouraging PED use “@JimBowdenESPNxm: Peralta - Cards agree to 4-year deal: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10030133/jhonny-peralta-st-louis-cardinals-agree-4-year-52-million-deal â€¦â€

[HBMike]

Speaking of PED users, Jim Bowden says the Angels are in on Colon. 

 

 

 

 

JIM BOWDEN â€@JimBowdenESPNxm7m

The Angels are "in" on both Bronson Arroyo and Bartolo Colon but are NOT close on anyone according to sources

Edited November 24, 2013 by HBMike

[Stradling]

You know, we all praise the Cards for doing things the right way. I'd like to go on record and say they are shitting the bed on this one. Not only is he a PED user but didn't they say they pride themselves on defense? I thought Perslta was poor defensively.

[Blarg]

I guess it has paid off for the Blue Jays that signed Melky Cabrerra.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Eric Notti

[xboom28x]

If I'm a Cards fan, I am pissed at this signing.

[jshep]

Not totally surprising that MLBPA schill Brad Ziegler would reduce the reality of the situation to that.

Edited November 24, 2013 by jshep

[Stradling]

Yea jshep but he's right.

[Second Base]

Peralta's a cheater.  But the worst thing about all of this, he NEVER tested positive.  We know he's been cheating, and now we know that he's taking PED's that either MLB can't test for or taking something that doesn't come up positive.  Regardless, how many other players are doing the exact same thing he's doing and getting away with it.  And even though he's been caught, he still landed a 50+ million dollar contract headed into his age 32 season, so in essence, this A-hole just got away with it and was even rewarded for it. 

[Inside Pitch]

You know, we all praise the Cards for doing things the right way. I'd like to go on record and say they are shitting the bed on this one. Not only is he a PED user but didn't they say they pride themselves on defense? I thought Perslta was poor defensively.

 

 

Strad, not sure why people have been saying that.  Early in his career he came up hitting HRs and I think he was labeled a hitter first glove second SS, but he was never truly awful.  He did have a bad defensive season a few years back and maybe the label just stuck...

 

He's not Brendan Ryan but he's not awful.  

[Stradling]

Yea I am not a defensive metric guy, not that I don't believe in them I just never learned to read them all. I was going by what I have seen and heard. He seems to me to have limited range and I'm guessing that won't get better with age. Oh and I wonder if the same people complaining about guaranteeing one year to Freese because of his age will speak out about four years and $52 million for a guy two years older at a tougher defensive position.

[wopphil]

Not totally surprising that MLBPA schill Brad Ziegler would reduce the reality of the situation to that.

You don't actually have a problem with what he said, do you?

[jshep]

You don't actually have a problem with what he said, do you?

 

I think it's drastically oversimplified, and in being so, absolves the other parties who are just as much part of the "problem" as the owners are of their blame.

Edited November 24, 2013 by jshep

[Bruce Nye]

Peralta's defense is why the Tigers traded for Joe Churches.

[Inside Pitch]

Yea I am not a defensive metric guy, not that I don't believe in them I just never learned to read them all. I was going by what I have seen and heard. He seems to me to have limited range and I'm guessing that won't get better with age. Oh and I wonder if the same people complaining about guaranteeing one year to Freese because of his age will speak out about four years and $52 million for a guy two years older at a tougher defensive position.

 

A lack of range is typically the easiest thing to catch with defensive metrics, it's some of the other stuff where the numbers fall short in.  FLD% for instance is one of the worst defensive stats around and likely the most commonly used..  Anyway, I've not seen Peralta be awful -- haven't seen him be awesome either.  He doesn't have Aybar's arm and he can't come in on a ball as well as Erick does - but, he does seem to go well to his glove side.

 

I haven't really been following the Freese bitching other than my own, but the few arguments I saw about his costs in dollars seemed to be aimed at his costs Vs PBs, and rolling with Jimenez and company.   

[Inside Pitch]

Peralta's defense is why the Tigers traded for Joe Churches.

 

Pretty sure it had more to do with the knowledge he has a suspension coming.   I mean, Dombrowski said as much.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Brent Maguire]

You know, we all praise the Cards for doing things the right way. I'd like to go on record and say they are shitting the bed on this one. Not only is he a PED user but didn't they say they pride themselves on defense? I thought Perslta was poor defensively.

He's actually been an above average defender every year since 2008 and was even really good in 2011 and 2012. 

 

I think the consensus among fans is that he's poor defensively since he's a big dude playing SS. 

[Vernster52]

Every team has cheaters.

[Bruce Nye]

Pretty sure it had more to do with the knowledge he has a suspension coming.   I mean, Dombrowski said as much.

 

Yes, but the Tigers are thrilled with Iglesias and he played ahead of Peralta when he came back.

[Stradling]

Every team has cheaters.

Absolutely, but how many knowingly sign players that are cheaters to four year deals?

[Inside Pitch]

Yes, but the Tigers are thrilled with Iglesias and he played ahead of Peralta when he came back.

 

There is no question the Tigers are thrilled with Iglesias -- doesn't change the fact that their GM went on record as saying the suspension made the trade a necessity.  And as far as starting over him goes - he only made it back for three games prior to the postseason and he started two of them at SS before giving way to Peralta later in the game and moving to LF.   He also got the start in the critical game 5 of the ALDS.  To Leyland's credit he was creative and used Peralta in LF a lot in the ALCS to put his best possible team on the field, but he still managed to start two games at SS..   

 

Anyway ... when you said they made the trade because of his defense you were talking out your rear -- that just isn't the case.  The fact that they would replace Peralta with Iglesias for defensive reasons doesn't point to Peralta's defense being bad, so much as it's a nod to how awesome Iglesias is defensively.  

 

As a Angels fan that's watched Mike Trout give way Peter Boujos defensively, you wouldn't say they did that because Trout is a bad defender, would you???

[Stradling]

Iglesias is a GREAT defender.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Cardinals are cool with Peralta's defensive shortcomings because they just massively upgraded the D at third base and in centerfield.

[Blarg]

^{SS is a little more critical of a position for defense than 3rd base.}

[AngelsLakersFan]

^{SS is a little more critical of a position for defense than 3rd base.}

 

Of course, but they are looking at the defense as a whole. They can afford to go with an offense first shortstop because they just improved the D overall and they managed to do it without compromising any of their pitching. Kozma was not a good defender either so I'm not sure how big of a hit this really is. This is win-win-win for St. Louis.

[Mark68]

Peralta's defense is why the Tigers traded for Joe Churches.

LOL