Jerry Dipoto fan club check-in

[m0nkey]

I'm still here. Sure, not a good trade as of now, but if an alien who knew nothing about baseball read that thread, they'd think the angels traded jesus christ himself.

[The Dude]

I'm willing to wait and see how the offseason plays out before jumping on the FDBW.

Edited November 23, 2013 by The Dude

[Cdaniel]

Hopefully Tanake gets posted and we win the bid then everything will be right in the world. Who would you trade, Aybar or Howie for the 4th starter?

[Angelsjunky]

I'm still waiting for someone from the Jerry Dipoto Fan Club to explain how he has improved the team in the short or long term. Pray tell.

[ScottT]

I don't see how this hurts the team in the short run.  Freese is likely at least as good as what they currently have at 3B.  Probably a bit better. Maybe considerably better. They have too many players for OF/1B/DH.  If Bourjos plays, you are sitting Calhoun or Trumbo, which may be a downgrade. I still believe Bourjos can repeat what he did in 2011, but it is far from a lock. 

 

The big signings, Bourjos' injuries, and the fact their best young player named Mike Trout is an OF, put the Angels in a tough spot.  They had to trade someone.

 

I would've preferred to deal  Trumbo and/or others. I don't like the deal, but the general reaction I've seen is pretty wacky.     

[Angelsjunky]

ScottT, the problem is not that they traded Bourjos OR that they traded for Freese. The problem is that they acted out of desperation and sold low...on November 22. If this were February 22 I might be a bit more understanding. But Dipoto's acting desperate, just a few weeks into the offseason, and selling low - and yet another prospect, to boot.

 

The front office has done nothing in quite some time to earn any realistic sense of confidence.

[ScottT]

I agree. I'd like to backtrack on my had to trade someone statement.  Eventually, yes, but not now.   I don't even think it is necessary to make a trade like this in February.  I would've rather kept Bourjos.  Maybe someone gets hurt and he boosts his value.  Maybe someone else does   

 

Including Grichuk seems especially unnecessary at this point.  He is one of the few prospects you have that could be an enticing piece in a bigger deal.  

[WallyWorld]

I remember at one time I liked Dipoto.  At this point I honestly can't remember why.  I guess it was because he's not Tony Reagins.

[xboom28x]

Grichuk wouldn't have been a top 10 prospect on a majority of teams.

 

His .306 OBP last season was something to be excited about

[Tank]

ScottT, the problem is not that they traded Bourjos OR that they traded for Freese. The problem is that they acted out of desperation and sold low...on November 22. If this were February 22 I might be a bit more understanding. But Dipoto's acting desperate, just a few weeks into the offseason, and selling low - and yet another prospect, to boot.

 

The front office has done nothing in quite some time to earn any realistic sense of confidence.

What if this was the beginning of a series of moves that nets the halos the missing starting pitching that's needed?

[bloodbrother]

I remember at one time I liked Dipoto.  At this point I honestly can't remember why.  I guess it was because he's not Tony Reagins.

 

It was because he talked a good game and gave us false hope that he knew what he was doing. After the Reagins era where he made bad moves and sounded clueless during interviews, we all bought into Dipoto...who is oh so good with words. We(or I guess I, specifically) liked that the Halos had finally brought in somebody from outside who had knowledge of advanced statistics. I was encouraged by the stuff he said and hoped that the team had finally had somebody at the helm who could look beyond certain statistics to evaluate players and find good value in players. Sadly, he seems overmatched for the job. Most of his trades look terrible value wise and his FA signings have been busts. Now, IDK how much Arte influenced the Pujols/Hamilton signings, but I do know that the Blanton signing is what immediately made me question whether Dipoto was the guy for the job

 

I've completely lost faith in him and this FO and am frustrated and worried about the long term outlook of this team/franchise. I'm concerned about  what future trades he ends up making the rest of this offseason

[Bruce Nye]

One Dipoto thread wasn't enough?  The preponderance of opinion is that the board doesn't like the trade, so this piling on thread is started. 

 

Next will be:

 

Rank the Angels GMs

 

When should Dipoto be fired?

 

Who will be next?

[ScottT]

Really, guys.  Less threads.  Less posts.  Clean it up!  

[nando714]

If some we're playing gm they'd fire the current coaching staff and fill it with players from the 2002 roster

[ukyah]

It was because he talked a good game and gave us false hope that he knew what he was doing. After the Reagins era where he made bad moves and sounded clueless during interviews, we all bought into Dipoto...who is oh so good with words. We(or I guess I, specifically) liked that the Halos had finally brought in somebody from outside who had knowledge of advanced statistics. I was encouraged by the stuff he said and hoped that the team had finally had somebody at the helm who could look beyond certain statistics to evaluate players and find good value in players. Sadly, he seems overmatched for the job. Most of his trades look terrible value wise and his FA signings have been busts. Now, IDK how much Arte influenced the Pujols/Hamilton signings, but I do know that the Blanton signing is what immediately made me question whether Dipoto was the guy for the job

 

I've completely lost faith in him and this FO and am frustrated and worried about the long term outlook of this team/franchise. I'm concerned about  what future trades he ends up making the rest of this offseason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

word for mother loving word pal. we're one of mlb's worst run and most dysfunctional franchises.

Edited November 23, 2013 by ukyah

[m0nkey]

One Dipoto thread wasn't enough?  The preponderance of opinion is that the board doesn't like the trade, so this piling on thread is started. 

 

Next will be:

 

Rank the Angels GMs

 

When should Dipoto be fired?

 

Who will be next?

 

One Dipoto thread wasn't enough?  The preponderance of opinion is that the board doesn't like the trade, so this piling on thread is started. 

 

Next will be:

 

Rank the Angels GMs

 

When should Dipoto be fired?

 

Who will be next?

Sorry officer.  This is the first time a "piling on thread" has been started in the history of Angelswin.com.  I apologize 

[Inside Pitch]

Grichuk wouldn't have been a top 10 prospect on a majority of teams.

 

His .306 OBP last season was something to be excited about

 

 

And yet according to John Manuel of BBA, he's going to be STL's number 10 -- guess we will have to wait until they release their organizational rankings to see whether or not your statement is anything more than opinion.  

 

The concerns about his OBP are legit but can be tempered by the knowledge his wOBA of .356 was higher than the league average of .325. His wOBA+ (which is like OPS+), was 111.  May not seem like much but it's actually pretty good given he was two years below the optimal age.  His LD% was up, his swinging K% was nearly 4% below the league average while his nB% was nearly twice the league's average, meaning he wasn't hacking despite the lower OBP.  Almost every advance indicator a team would look at paints a positive picture of where he was heading as a prospect.   He was poised to bust out.

 

His home park and low BABIP make his overall numbers look worse than they actually were but when you look at his age, the park factors and everything else, he was likely one of the best picks in the system to break out.   StL, being a saber enlightened franchise just completely robbed the Angels who were probably hoping the masses would simply look at the raw numbers and not notice the team got fleeced in an epic way.

 

The really funny part is that for an organization with a fan-base seemingly enamored with HR's, most people appear completely unaware that his 22 HRs as a 21 year old came in a park with a HR index to RHB's of 69.   Petco Park, MLB's lowest HR index park comes in at 87 -- ATT Park, the lowest HR index for RHBs comes in at 74.  It doesn't take much to consider him a possible 40 HR guy in a place like SLC...

When it's all said and done, the Angels just traded away one of the better pure power prospects in MLB for a 28 year old reliever.   

[Inside Pitch]

It was because he talked a good game and gave us false hope that he knew what he was doing. After the Reagins era where he made bad moves and sounded clueless during interviews, we all bought into Dipoto...who is oh so good with words. We(or I guess I, specifically) liked that the Halos had finally brought in somebody from outside who had knowledge of advanced statistics. I was encouraged by the stuff he said and hoped that the team had finally had somebody at the helm who could look beyond certain statistics to evaluate players and find good value in players. Sadly, he seems overmatched for the job. Most of his trades look terrible value wise and his FA signings have been busts. Now, IDK how much Arte influenced the Pujols/Hamilton signings, but I do know that the Blanton signing is what immediately made me question whether Dipoto was the guy for the job

 

I've completely lost faith in him and this FO and am frustrated and worried about the long term outlook of this team/franchise. I'm concerned about  what future trades he ends up making the rest of this offseason

 

Yeah -- I bought his talk as well.  He says all the right things, but then he follows up the talk with moves that fly in the face of what he states are his base beliefs.  

Dude should run for office.

[xboom28x]

And yet according to John Manuel of BBA, he's going to be STL's number 10 -- guess we will have to wait until they release their organizational rankings to see whether or not your statement is anything more than opinion.  

 

The concerns about his OBP are legit but can be tempered by the knowledge his wOBA of .356 was higher than the league average of .325. His wOBA+ (which is like OPS+), was 111.  May not seem like much but it's actually pretty good given he was two years below the optimal age.  His LD% was up, his swinging K% was nearly 4% below the league average while his nB% was nearly twice the league's average, meaning he wasn't hacking despite the lower OBP.  Almost every advance indicator a team would look at paints a positive picture of where he was heading as a prospect.   He was poised to bust out.

 

His home park and low BABIP make his overall numbers look worse than they actually were but when you look at his age, the park factors and everything else, he was likely one of the best picks in the system to break out.   StL, being a saber enlightened franchise just completely robbed the Angels who were probably hoping the masses would simply look at the raw numbers and not notice the team got fleeced in an epic way.

 

The really funny part is that for an organization with a fan-base seemingly enamored with HR's, most people appear completely unaware that his 22 HRs as a 21 year old came in a park with a HR index to RHB's of 69.   Petco Park, MLB's lowest HR index park comes in at 87 -- ATT Park, the lowest HR index for RHBs comes in at 74.  It doesn't take much to consider him a possible 40 HR guy in a place like SLC...

When it's all said and done, the Angels just traded away one of the better pure power prospects in MLB for a 28 year old reliever.   

 

Cool stats! Now compare them to Brandon Wood's and tell me why I should be excited about Grichuk?

[KingJustinian]

ScottT, the problem is not that they traded Bourjos OR that they traded for Freese. The problem is that they acted out of desperation and sold low...on November 22. If this were February 22 I might be a bit more understanding. But Dipoto's acting desperate, just a few weeks into the offseason, and selling low - and yet another prospect, to boot.

 

The front office has done nothing in quite some time to earn any realistic sense of confidence.

 

They also bought low on Freese too.

[Inside Pitch]

Cool stats! Now compare them to Brandon Wood's and tell me why I should be excited about Grichuk?

 

I did actually look at the stats -- that's why I never bought into the Wood hype...   Then again, I'm not the sort of idiot that uses ERA to predict future performance either.

 

BTW, mocking the use of stats when I was basically responding to your poor usage of stats is pretty comical and hypocritical, but I guess its par for the course coming from the guy telling others that message boards aren't a safe place for people who cant take criticism only days after crying like a little bitch because he felt his "opinions" were being bashed.

 

Now respond a few more times with more of your vapid nonsense and tell me how I'm the one that likes to argue just to argue, Mr. Pot.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[xboom28x]

ScottT, the problem is not that they traded Bourjos OR that they traded for Freese. The problem is that they acted out of desperation and sold low...on November 22. If this were February 22 I might be a bit more understanding. But Dipoto's acting desperate, just a few weeks into the offseason, and selling low - and yet another prospect, to boot.

 

The front office has done nothing in quite some time to earn any realistic sense of confidence.

 

How does the stock of Bourjos improve without playing in a major league game between now and Feb 22? If it was a buy low now, and a buy low on Feb 22, why does it matter when the trade was made?

[eligrba]

Pitching.  We need pitching. 

This is a trade that does not seem to be time sensitive.  This trade could have happened later in the offseason after Dipoto addressed our pitching needs.  I realize there were three players at third base, bit not one of them served up walk off homers or blew big leads.

 

Pitching.  We need pitching.

[xboom28x]

I did actually look at the stats -- that's why I never bought into the Wood hype...   Then again, I'm not the sort of idiot that uses ERA to predict future performance either.

 

BTW, mocking the use of stats when I was basically responding to your poor usage of stats is pretty comical and hypocritical, but I guess its par for the course coming from the guy telling others that message boards aren't a safe place for people who cant take criticism only days after crying like a little bitch because he felt his "opinions" were being bashed.

 

Now respond a few more times with more of your vapid nonsense and tell me how I'm the one that likes to argue just to argue, Mr. Pot.

 

Sort of idiot? Nice touch IP.. Stay classy.

[tennischmp]

How does the stock of Bourjos improve without playing in a major league game between now and Feb 22? If it was a buy low now, and a buy low on Feb 22, why does it matter when the trade was made?

By that time other teams may be interested, not because his stock would improve but because other teams would be desperate after not getting what they wanted in free agency.