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For those who support the trade


Scott34

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I don't mind the PB for Freese swap, as even though PB was one of my favorite Angels, he was coming off a down year and traded for a down year 3B.

 

Both players are injury prone. If they had got one of the Cardinals minor league starters like Tim Cooney, instead of Salas, it would be a win for the Angels even though they gave up Grichuck.

 

In three years, if PB does well, they'll resign him and let Holliday go and have a major league of of Grichuck, Bourjos, Tavares. 

 

Salas is not the type of pitcher that Grichuck should have returned. They needed a AA starter with upside.

Makes sense....but pitching is at such a  premium this off-season that Arte is going to have to pay for it, IMO.

He has never stuck to any supposed budget and I kinda doubt that he has any serious intentions of suddenly doing so this year.

I expect him to continue spending like the win now owner he is.

Just my guess.

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Just curious Chuck... do you like the deal because we got warm bodies in exchange for expendable OF's? 

 

I just can't help but think the Angels just got rid of 2 assets that could've brought in some quality SP if packaged with others.

 

This does allow us to trade Kendrick, but I'm not looking forward to seeing Green as an everyday starter.

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I like the 2011 version of Freese. This trade is about two years too late.

 

2012 version was an All-Star 3B.  Hitting .290 w/20HR.

 

He had a down year.   He can turn it around.

 

This is a trade that fills needs for both sides.

 

Cards get the defense upgrade they needed in CF.    Angels get a 3B who has been an All-Star and WS MVP.   

 

Both guys are coming off down years, both are risks.  Both have high upside.   

 

Who knows, maybe Salas will find his 2011 self in Anaheim.     Cards don't have the OF depth the Angels have.   

 

With that said, if I was DiPoto, I would held out for a AA SP prospect.   But I think both teams fill some of their minor needs with this trade.   Cards still need a SS,  Angels still need a starting pitcher or two.    I don't think the Angels want to move Aybar, who would play in his place?

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I think it's crazy that this trade has caused such a stir, positive and negative.  If Trout was ever traded, even with a mammoth haul, this website would need to shut down temporarily.  It's the first move of the offseason and it's only November 22nd.  I'm sure on the surface trading Prince Fielder wasn't popular with all Tigers fans.  Let's see what happens. 

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In reality, both of the main pieces of this trade were likely to be platoon or bench guys on their former teams in 2014.   

 

Both are injury prone.  Both have high upside.

 

They get a chance to start fresh in new enviornments.  I hope it works out for everyone.

Edited by CardsFanVegas
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If we get the 2011 version of Freese, it's all good.

 

If we get an injury-prone player who shows his age, and Bourjos flourishes in St. Louis, then obviously it's bad.

 

Let's wait and see what we get. 

 

 

We're unable to wait and see, the jury has sent in their verdict today.

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It has been well documented.

tdawg87, you're a different breed. I'd have a beer with you and argue these facts and have fun. Others, not so much.

I see you give the team shit all the time so it isn't like you supporting this trade is a big deal.

I'm actually kind of excited about Freese. I just can't for the life of me wrap my head around the other part of the deal. But honestly Salas could end up being the closer for all we know.

I think we as fans are naturally inclined to hate every trade when it happens because we don't like giving up talent. We all want to give up our crap to get another team's gold.

But yeah, I'm willing to wait a bit before freaking out on Dipoto. This offseason is off to a rough start but there's still a long way to go.

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In reality, both of the main pieces of this trade were likely to be platoon or bench guys on their former teams in 2014.   

 

Both are injury prone.  Both have high upside.

 

They get a chance to start fresh in new enviornments.  I hope it works out for everyone.

The difference is that Bourjos is filling a position of great need which the Angels filled a need that they don't really need.

Edited by tennischmp
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If we get the 2011 version of Freese, it's all good.

 

If we get an injury-prone player who shows his age, and Bourjos flourishes in St. Louis, then obviously it's bad.

 

Let's wait and see what we get. 

In reality though, if the Freese does hit like 2011 but the Angel are not able to improve the pitching enough to make the playoffs, it still would not be a good trade.

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I see you give the team shit all the time so it isn't like you supporting this trade is a big deal.

I'm actually kind of excited about Freese. I just can't for the life of me wrap my head around the other part of the deal. But honestly Salas could end up being the closer for all we know.

I think we as fans are naturally inclined to hate every trade when it happens because we don't like giving up talent. We all want to give up our crap to get another team's gold.

But yeah, I'm willing to wait a bit before freaking out on Dipoto. This offseason is off to a rough start but there's still a long way to go.

 

 

Thank you tdawg. I'm just a dog looking for a bone after this deal. I want to give the GM a chance to assemble a good pitching staff before I start a FIRE DIPOTO thread. It's totally premature to do so at this stage. There's several moves to make still IMO, and from what I heard.

 

Now, let me go ice my balls and drink a good craft beer and shot of whiskey to come out a champ after this heavyweight argument. Felt like it was me against the world today. Fack!

 

BTW, I haven't banned you LT (Again) but I have you on mute. Carry on, #*$&%

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As I said in the other thread I'm not excited about the trade but I'm not mad either.  PB likely wasn't going to get us a ML starter so we would have those rotation spots to fill regardless of whether or not this trade happened.  Now if you're contending that we should have kept PB and traded Trumbo that I can at least understand.  All that said fans overvalue their own players more often than not.  PB is worth what another team was willing trade for him not what fans think he should bring in and I'd like to think the FO took the best possible deal.  I like PB and think if he had been able to stay in the line up the last few years he would be patrolling the OF with Trout for years to come but that wasn't the case.  If he stays healthy I think he's a great add for St. Louis but all I care about at this point is how Freese and Salas do for the Angels.  The offseason is far from over and the Angels have holes to fill so I'm not going to get all worked up when the start of the season is over 4 months away.  

Edited by Catwhoshatinthehat
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Couple questions:

 

A) Do you not care about a farm system?

B ) Why do you like David Freese statistically speaking?

C) Where do you think we are going to fill the 2-3 holes in the rotation?

D) Did you think our defense was good last year?

 

As I tweeted a little earlier:

 

Text from a family member of an Angel: "He [Dipoto] is so bad. We give no young players a chance."

 

 

I am rooting for Freese and Salas, but this smells Wellsian.

 

Grichuk isn't a throw-in.

 

Ok, I'll answer them:

 

1. Yes, I deeply care about the farm system. The fact is that the state of the farm system is due to terrible drafting 3-5 years ago and a mutual love affair between players who swing at everything and don't walk and coaches who teach the same.

2. I like David Freese because he plays 3B, has a good OBP, and has a history, albeit short, of coming up with key hits.

3. Not sure. That is the big question. The problem is that pitching is scarce, highly valuable, and no one is willing to trade it. The only guys you can get who are still young are the ones who are going to start losing it. Jason Vargas got a 4 year deal for $32 million! Bartolo Colon is still a "wanted" asset even though he is on roids! That is how valuable pitching is right now. There is no way Grichuck was going to get us any pitching prospect worth a lick.

4. No, our defense was terrible. Part of that was luck, part of that was terrible effort. We need new bodies on this team.

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Couple questions:

 

A) Do you not care about a farm system?

B ) Why do you like David Freese statistically speaking?

C) Where do you think we are going to fill the 2-3 holes in the rotation?

D) Did you think our defense was good last year?

 

As I tweeted a little earlier:

 

Text from a family member of an Angel: "He [Dipoto] is so bad. We give no young players a chance."

 

 

I am rooting for Freese and Salas, but this smells Wellsian.

 

Grichuk isn't a throw-in.

 

Ok let's go through this point by point.

 

First off A is not an appropriate questions and is childish in it's presentation. MLB teams have farm systems to benefit the parent club, no other reason. All of the nurturing of talent is meaningless unless that talent can be realized. If it can't then the talent needs to be moved to bring in something the parent club can use. Every team uses their minor league as trading chips during the course of the season and offseason that slip under the radar. There is no feelings involved in these transactions any more than trading stock.

 

As for B, the Angels had a problem generating offense from the middle and back end of their lineup. Callaspo was a poor defender (-0.8 dWAR) and did not compensate for that with his bat (.714 career OPS). Although Freese is no upgrade defensively (-1.5 dWAR) his bat certainly is (.783 career OPS) . The difference between the two last season in salary is $1 million dollars more for Callaspo. Freese is cheaper/better. The Angels did not have a viable in house solution so they improved their lineup by trading devalued spare parts. This is what the GM is supposed to do.

 

C is another question that has nothing to do with this trade. The Angels have more than a Plan A in the works and they have obviously set aside resources to address plan A but that does not mean they put off their other roster changes until plan A is realized. They still have better trading chips than oft injured Peter Bourjos to use to lure a team into trading starting pitching. They even have better minor league talent than Grichuk to use as filler for the right trade. Even more realistic there are pitchers on the free agent market available.

 

D again is one of those questions that really pertains to 9 guys on the field not one. Making a lateral move defensively but an improvement offensively is not a negative when the option is to remain defensively weak at a given position and get no compensation offensively.

 

Your last plea is on deaf ears. I really don't care what minor leaguer's parent is complaining their kid is not getting playing time. If they were so good they would be in the outfield with Trout. If they were so good they would have been in the infield with Aybar, Trumbo and Kendrick. But they are not good enough to hold down a MLB position so your tweet holds about as much water as a sieve.

 

I am on board with the trade because it improves a position by utilizing players the Angels no longer are dependent on for every day play. And yes, Grichuck was disposable.

Edited by Mudville
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Great, don't you think the Angels should be be working at getting sure things instead of more question marks?

Yes of course, but it isn't like they traded a sure thing. If it was a healthy Bourjos last year coming into this year the market would have been different, but that simply isn't the case. I don't love this trade, but I also will be willing to let the offseason play itself out so we can see where we end up.

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