Angels interested in Arroyo

[Make Angels Great Again]

I'd like to see two of Arroyo, Dan Haren, and Jason Vargas return. Hopefully for less than $20 M combined. They are reliable veterans, all of which have put up 200 IP in the majors, all have had seasons where they've started 30+ games, and all have had ERA's under 4.

Also, Vargas, Haren and Arroyo also don't walk a ton of guys, (Haren and Arroyo hardly ever do) and walks = baserunners and more pitches which equals more pitches per inning, which equals less innings per game.

Arroyo has had 4 seasons of his last five with ERA's under 3.88. In a bandbox, the most hitter friendly stadium out there.

He is not Joe Blanton 2.0.

Haren is done, like, super done. Was that not clear enough in his last season here? So then he goes and sucks for Washington but you're not convinced? The Angels can do better I think than getting two of those 3 guys. I would be pretty disappointed if those were out So acquisitions.

[Agalloch]

I'd love him as a replacement for Vargas! Sign him and trade for a #3!

[WallyWorld]

Haren is done, like, super done. Was that not clear enough in his last season here? So then he goes and sucks for Washington but you're not convinced? 

 

I can't believe any Angels fan could actually be in favor of bringing Haren back.  It's not possible to have watched his 2012 here and to ever want to see him pitch for the Angels again.

[Scott34]

I can't believe any Angels fan could actually be in favor of bringing Haren back.  It's not possible to have watched his 2012 here and to ever want to see him pitch for the Angels again.

 

Which is hilarious because 2012 Haren was probably better than 2013 Vargas

[bloodbrother]

Probably? He was

[Brent Maguire]

Vargas and Richards as the 4/5 isn't bad at all. What they need is a guy who is much better than Vargas as the 3. They can't sign both Arroyo and Vargas.

[VariousCrap]

Which is hilarious because 2012 Haren was probably better than 2013 Vargas

 

 

Nope.

[Scott34]

Nope.

 

Stats to back that up?

[Docwaukee]

Which is hilarious because 2012 Haren was probably better than 2013 Vargas

meh.  both pitched like a #4.  I'd still rather have Vargas going forward though. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 years 15 mil with a option for the 3rd year would do it

 

Isn't that something like Blanton's contract?

[Scott34]

meh.  both pitched like a #4.  I'd still rather have Vargas going forward though. 

 

Yeh, I'd take the cheaper one (Haren)

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I can't believe any Angels fan could actually be in favor of bringing Haren back.  It's not possible to have watched his 2012 here and to ever want to see him pitch for the Angels again.

 

Ironic that four of the most "discussed" Angels pitchers of the last several years are all available simultaneously: Dan Haren, Ervin Santana, Scott Kazmir, Fernando Rodney.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I think he'd work well as a #9 starter. 

[Docwaukee]

I was against this when I first heard of it, but to be honest, he's better than Blanton ever was by far and probably as good of an option if not better than Vargas.  Depends on the cost, but I'd be fine with him as our #4 if you got a pretty good #3. 

[xboom28x]

I love how people are quick to throw out stats from guys like Arroyo and Hudson in the National League where they face the pitcher at least twice a game or some crappy pinch hitter. As well as where there are a lot more sacrifices.

 

Completely different animal to throw junk like that and still be successful in the AL. Derek Lowe comes to mind.

[Brent Maguire]

Haren is a really interesting case too. The 4.67 ERA in the NL obviously isn't good but his K/BB ratio was very good. The very concerning signs obviously are the huge HR rate, the decreasing ground balls and increasing fly balls. 

[arch stanton]

If we're going as low as Haren or Arroyo we might as well go after Hammel. He'll be much cheaper.

[Marsaka]

meh.  both pitched like a #4.  I'd still rather have Vargas going forward though. 

 

So he can chip a toenail and be out for 6 months.   This team needs tougher guys not these pansy ass pitchers they keep bringing in like Vargas, Hanson, and Blanton.

[WallyWorld]

the Haren nonsense needs to stop because there is 0% chance he's coming back.  Does everyone forget that Jerry Dipoto traded him away when he was in Arizona, and then when he came to Anaheim he let him walk as a FA.  It's pretty apparent that Dipoto does not think much of Haren as a pitcher.

[Mudville]

So he can chip a toenail and be out for 6 months. This team needs tougher guys not these pansy ass pitchers they keep bringing in like Vargas, Hanson, and Blanton.

That and his knees are too sharp. Well below your standards, right? Edited November 19, 2013 by Mudville

[Inside Pitch]

I love how people are quick to throw out stats from guys like Arroyo and Hudson in the National League where they face the pitcher at least twice a game or some crappy pinch hitter. As well as where there are a lot more sacrifices.

 

Completely different animal to throw junk like that and still be successful in the AL. Derek Lowe comes to mind.

 

This used to be much more true in the past but the AL/NL gap has been closing in recent years.

 

NL teams on average saw all of 295 at bats from their pitchers last year, 1.8 at bats from their pitchers per game.  So when you say they are facing a pitcher at least twice a game you're actually wrong.  The average NL team used 225 pinch hitters -- sounds like a lot but then you have to consider that AL teams on average used 94, so the net difference is all of 131 more pinch hitters.... less then 1 per game.  When it's all said and done, you're talking about less than 3 ABs per game.  The other thing to consider is how much offense has come down in recent years -- DHs combined for a 244/323/.402 batting line in the AL.   Yes, the NL sacrifices more -- they are also more successful at it.

 

Possibly the biggest factor in why the gap is shrinking is the ballparks themselves -- the NL parks have gotten progressively smaller.  Last year, 6 of the top 10 HR parks in MLB were in the NL.  4 of the top 5 parks in terms of HITS are in the NL, Yankee Stadium was 5th.  Places like Miller Park (Mil), Citizen's Park (Phi), Great Outdoors Park (Cin) have joined Coors and Wrigley as some of the most offensive minded parks in MLB.  There are also more inter-league games now than in the past (300).

 

Derek Lowe's last season in the NL (ATL), he managed an ERA of 5.05, good for an ERA+ of 76.  The next season he went to the AL (NYY and Cle), and posted an ERA of 5.11, good for an ERA+ of 77.   Your lone example doesn't support your case at all - he was already done while in the NL and proved he was done in the AL.

 

When it's all said and done..  the net difference is down to less than .25 difference per game.   The Astros jettisoned some of their better pitchers last offseason and their net gain in team ERA was .23

 

I'd steer clear of Arroyo because of the HR tendencies but for the most part he was nothing better than an league average pitcher in the NL last year and that's likely his ceiling in the AL.  I don't think the people who DO want him are expecting him to be anything other than a 4.00-4.25 ERA type...

Edited November 19, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Mudville]

If the Angels had a pair of league average pitchers last season instead of Hanson and Blanton they very well could have found themselves in second place in the AL West. Too much is made of .25 ERA differences between average pitchers when what the Angels put out there were ERA's 2 points above league average.

Fill the holes with a couple of league average pitchers, restock the bullpen with one lights out reliever and maybe a 7th inning arm and sit back and watch Trout and company take care of the rest.

[gotbeer]

 I don't think the people who DO want him are expecting him to be anything other than a 4.00-4.25 ERA type...

 

4.00-4.25 ERA would be a huge improvement over our 5.42-6.04 ERA our dynamic duo did over 205 IP.  If you can get him on a Hudson type deal, I would do it.  

[xboom28x]

I don't see Arroyo having anything under 4.50 ERA if he played for the Angels next season.

 

For those using the argument that Arroyo won't make or break the 2014 season, why get him then? This team needs to focus on acquiring players that WILL make this upcoming season.

[jshep]

So he can chip a toenail and be out for 6 months.   This team needs tougher guys not these pansy ass pitchers they keep bringing in like Vargas, Hanson, and Blanton.

 

Blood clot, chipped toenail, what's the difference?

Edited November 19, 2013 by jshep