Offseason 2014: The Ultimate Winter of Trade Porn

[Toby Ziegler]

No baiting, just wondering. Because if you were banned you'd think you'd recognize that your behavior isn't acceptable.  But if you left of your own accord I sincerely hope you take the best of what you learned at Angelswin and carry it with you in life....away.....from this post....

 

Oh, in that case thank you for your genuine concern about my well-being. Clearly, you weren't baiting me. Gosh, what was I thinking?! You know something? I was totally wrong about you. You're a stand-up guy. I sincerely hope you can pass on these life lessons to other poor souls.

 

The thing about bulls*** is it's pretty easy to detect. See what I did there?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Second Base]

Edit another post?

[Toby Ziegler]

Edit another post?

 

Yep. You should try it sometime.

[Brent Maguire]

What the hell happened to this thread?

[Stradling]

Toby happened to this thread. It happens a lot.

[Docwaukee]

Scotty and Toby - grow up.  if you guys want to have a slap fest or pull each others hair then do it where the rest of us don't suffer. 

 

Scotty - I like you.  You post some good stuff.  Stop baiting the kid.  It's annoying.  Your digs are obvious and childish

 

Toby - grow a pair.  stop taking the bait.  no one inherently has anything against you or your brother.  you don't need to take everything personally.  If someone is being a dick to you, move on. 

 

the only thing the both of you are doing is making it so we have less and less respect for you even if you post some valuable info or something worthy of discussion. 

[YouthofToday]

If we are counting on Jiminez to be an everyday 2 WAR 3B we are in more trouble than I fear.

[Docwaukee]

If we are counting on Jiminez to be an everyday 2 WAR 3B we are in more trouble than I fear.

he could easily be a 2 WAR player with his defense. 

 

the halos were middle of the pack in WAR for a 3bman at 1.3 for all of last season and Lucho led the team with 0.7 in 110pa.  Not saying he replicates that small sample over a season, but what the Halos are counting on from the 3b position is almost nothing which is what they got in 2013.  They have the pieces to keep them in the middle of the pack.  I would normally say it's an area to target for improvement, but the options are limited.  You could use a trade chip to get 1 WAR better and you'd also potentially take on some salary.  Or you use that trade piece to get even more of a upgrade on the pitching side. 

 

If we end up having the luxury of being focused on the production of our 3bman then we are actually doing pretty well because it likely means that the 3 SP and 3 pen spots we are currently worried about have been addressed appropriately. 

[Ohtaniland]

If we are counting on Jiminez to be an everyday 2 WAR 3B we are in more trouble than I fear.

 

He's Pujols buddy so count him in.

[Scott34]

If we are counting on Jiminez to be an everyday 2 WAR 3B we are in more trouble than I fear.

Why? If he simply replicates what he did last year then he's easily a 2 WAR player.

[Docwaukee]

Why? If he simply replicates what he did last year then he's easily a 2 WAR player.

exactly.  and it really wasn't all that much offensively.  a .610 ops with a 2% walk rate got him 0.7 WAR in 110 PA in a small sample.  Above average D will make him a better than average 3bman because the position is so weak across the league. 

[YouthofToday]

New piece on cardinals openingly stating they want to trade pitching for a young, cost-controlled short stop :: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/10/cardinals-prepared-to-trade-young-starting-pitching-this-winter-for-a-shortstop-upgrade/

Andrus to the Cardinals for pitching makes a lot of sense.

Andrus is only 25 and has a club-friendly deal through 2022 + club-friendly 2023 club option.

Edited November 11, 2013 by YouthofToday

[YouthofToday]

exactly. and it really wasn't all that much offensively. a .610 ops with a 2% walk rate got him 0.7 WAR in 110 PA in a small sample. Above average D will make him a better than average 3bman because the position is so weak across the league.

Fair point. I just don't think his defense will continue to rank that high. I doubt his bat gets much better.

[Toby Ziegler]

The Mariners need OFs pretty bad. I would think Bourjos and maybe one other hitting prospect would get the job done for James Paxton. Erasmo Ramirez would cost less and can probably be had as well. They won't trade Taijuan Walker, but they might be persuaded to part ways with Danny Hultzen at a considerable discount, since he keeps getting injured and will probably miss all of next season. Their GM is on the hot seat, too. He's going to want to make a splash this offseason.

 

If the Angels miss out on Tanaka, they should aggressively pursue Ubaldo Jimenez, who is testing the market. He had a dramatic turnaround this season, particularly in the 2nd half. Went to his slider 25% of the time, which could help explain the spike in strikeouts, and also developed a splitter. Threw more first pitch strikes than ever before as well. Ubaldo comes at some risk, given his recent volatility, but if the turnaround was legit you're looking at an ace.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Scott34]

Fair point. I just don't think his defense will continue to rank that high. I doubt his bat gets much better.

 

I think it will even out. 

 

.700 OPS with maybe a 5 UZR.   2-3 WAR.  I think he could be a solid regular next year.

[Docwaukee]

I think it will even out. 

 

.700 OPS with maybe a 5 UZR.   2-3 WAR.  I think he could be a solid regular next year.

not to mention the fact that a legitimate upgrade will cost the team anything legit they have to trade.  Give it to Green and Lucho to fight it out.  Or bring in Chavez as a backup.  Use your chips to get pitching.

[Jim]

You should take a closer look at the O's depth chart.  The O's have Gonzalez, Tillman, Norris, Chen and Gausman already lined up for next year, plus the possibility of giving Matusz an actual shot in the rotation.  Not to mention Dylan Bundy will return sometime around the ASB, Eduardo Rodriguez is a year away and they'll be in the bidding for Tanaka and they've already had talks with Feldman and Tuyoshi Wada.  This is an organization with pitching depth that's looking for offense.

 

You're missing my point. You could name another twelve pitchers, but I don't believe the O's will give up their number 1 pitcher for Kendrick, a second baseman they don't need.  

 

You should also take another look at the Cards depth chart.  Kelly's most certainly not their #2 or even #3 SP. They have Wainwright, Miller, Wacha, Lynn, Garcia, Kelly and have already expressed interest in converting Trevor Rosenthal and Carlos Martinez back into starters, where they belong. 

 

Kelly's their 5th starter when Garcia's hurt which makes him #6 on their depth chart, but with Rosenthal and Martinez on their way to the rotation, this likely makes Kelly their 8th SP.  

 

In less than a sentence you have taken the Cardinals from expressing an interest in converting Rosenthal and Martinez back into starters to the point of having them back into the starting rotation making Kelly their 8th SP. Quite the leap. OK, lets for a minute assume that to be true. Your deal would then consist of us trading Bourjos, Jepsen?, Stamets, and Green for Kelly (their #8 SP) and Freese. Wow, I hope not.   

[Second Base]

Jim, Miguel Gonzalez isn't the O's ace, Tillman is.  Gonzalez's value is probably around the same as Chen right now.  

 

As for the Cards, when your #8 SP is as good as Joe Kelly is, that's the sort of package it takes.  Kelly's a solid #4 on just about any other team. 

[ettin]

If we are counting on Jiminez to be an everyday 2 WAR 3B we are in more trouble than I fear.

 

 

Why? If he simply replicates what he did last year then he's easily a 2 WAR player.

 

 

exactly.  and it really wasn't all that much offensively.  a .610 ops with a 2% walk rate got him 0.7 WAR in 110 PA in a small sample.  Above average D will make him a better than average 3bman because the position is so weak across the league. 

 

This is why we might ultimately have a platoon at third base. A Jimenez/Green platoon at 3rd would have Jimenez vs. RHP and Green vs. LHP. I still think that Chris Nelson might be the answer, period, at third base from an offensive standpoint. Nelson's Minor League numbers are pretty impressive (2011-2013:.325/.361/.532/.893) and he has not played consistently yet at the Major League level. In 2012 he hit .301/.352/.458/.810 over 377 at-bats, albeit with a slightly inflated BABIP? Defensively it wouldn't be ideal but there are options that can be figured out by the end of Spring Training.

       

[Toby Ziegler]

Chris Nelson at Coors:

.313/.362/.457 (335 ABs, .818 OPS)

 

Chris Nelson Away from Coors:

.233/.274/.370 (365 ABs, .644 OPS)

 

Looks like a product of Coors to me.

[ettin]

Scotty and Toby - grow up.  if you guys want to have a slap fest or pull each others hair then do it where the rest of us don't suffer. 

 

Scotty - I like you.  You post some good stuff.  Stop baiting the kid.  It's annoying.  Your digs are obvious and childish

 

Toby - grow a pair.  stop taking the bait.  no one inherently has anything against you or your brother.  you don't need to take everything personally.  If someone is being a dick to you, move on. 

 

the only thing the both of you are doing is making it so we have less and less respect for you even if you post some valuable info or something worthy of discussion. 

 

Every team needs a clubhouse leader, Doc, thanks.

[ettin]

Chris Nelson at Coors:

.313/.362/.457 (335 ABs, .818 OPS)

 

Chris Nelson Away from Coors:

.233/.274/.370 (365 ABs, .644 OPS)

 

Looks like a product of Coors to me.

 

Yeah his Minor League numbers follow a similar trend, it is a Monday morning Toby, give me a break!

 

He's still a possible option though, particularly against RHP. I do like Jimenez's defense enough to sway me over to his side instead.

[Blarg]

New piece on cardinals openingly stating they want to trade pitching for a young, cost-controlled short stop :: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/10/cardinals-prepared-to-trade-young-starting-pitching-this-winter-for-a-shortstop-upgrade/

Andrus to the Cardinals for pitching makes a lot of sense.

Andrus is only 25 and has a club-friendly deal through 2022 + club-friendly 2023 club option.

 

What the hell is club friendly about a 9 year contract with a complete no trade clause and an AAV of @ $15 million for a shortstop?

 

Hell, the next time he reaches 100 OPS+ will be his first time in his career and that is in the Arlington launch pad.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Eric Notti

[Inside Pitch]

What the hell is club friendly about a 9 year contract with a complete no trade clause and an AAV of @ $15 million for a shortstop?

 

Hell, the next time he reaches 100 OPS+ will be his first time in his career and that is in the Arlington launch pad.

 

 

His game plays better in the NL, but, you gotta wonder if the team that signed Pulols to 100 mil contract and Holliday to a 120 million dollar deal would consider paying as much as 135 mil to a weak stick SS as "club friendly."   Particularly given the decline curves of most weak stick SS after age 30.

[SoWhat]

By Zach Links [November 11 at 2:16pm CST]

The Rangers are looking for offensive firepower at the GM Meetings, writes Richard Durrett of ESPNDallas.com. “More or less we’ve been telling clubs our short-term needs are more on the offensive side,” GM Jon Daniels said. “We have some depth in a couple of areas organizationally and at the big league level. We’re open to different ideas.” Here's more out of the AL West..

The Rangers and Cardinals remain strong potential trade partners with the Cards wanting Jurickson Profar or Elvis Andrus and Texas liking Shelby Miller, Oscar Taveras, and Matt Adams, tweets Jim Bowden of ESPN.com.