Ubaldo Jimenez

[Chuck]

Unfortunately when I think of top Draft picks I think of Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis, Dallas McPherson and McKay Christianson, not Glaus, Erstad and Trout.

[Mark68]

I really don't care about the draft pick. 

 

I want a guy with quality stuff that can be the ace of the staff that won't cost an arm and a leg. I believe that Ubaldo Jimenez is that guy. But that's just my opinion. 

Chuck, I think you're wrong here on many accounts.

 

We are not in the position to be giving up draft picks. That's part of the reason our farm system is among the worst, if not THE worst, in MLB. We need to think about the future. Not caring about the future is a principal reason why this organization is a turd sandwich right now.

 

Also, I have serious doubts that Jimenez would be the ace of the staff here, ESPECIALLY with the current pitching coach in place. I also think that Jimenez' second half pitched him into the arm and a leg territory.

[mp170.6]

I really don't care about the draft pick. 

 

I want a guy with quality stuff that can be the ace of the staff that won't cost an arm and a leg. I believe that Ubaldo Jimenez is that guy. But that's just my opinion. 

 

He was terrible in 2011 and 2012 with ERA's of 5.10 and 5.40 playing for the Indians.  The league average both years was 4.08.  That's how bad he was. 

 

This year he was much better but only pitched 182.2 innings in 32 starts -- an average of 5.68 innings per start -- a recipe for disaster given the state of the Angels bullpen.  Some may point to him throwing about 220 innings for the Rockies back in 2009 and 2010.  To accomplish this, they let him throw 115-120 pitches in many of his starts (even close to 130 a few times), something the Angels would never allow. 

 

So the moral of the story is Ubaldo is a 5 or 6 inning pitcher, with control problems and a bad attitude.  

[Brent Maguire]

Losing a draft pick is an issue too. If you can trade one of our players and get a better, more reliable pitcher for less money, I'd prefer that than signing Jimenez.

[YouthofToday]

We simply must not lose our 1st round pick with the worst farm system in baseball and $500 million+ guaranteed in future payroll. We still are going to need to set aside another $300 million+ for Trout.

Trout was a 1st round pick, right?

[Chuck]

But trading a proven regular in exchange for a 1st round unproven gamble, I don't see it. Plus who's to say our 2nd and 3rd to late round picks won't contribute better?

I don't care about what BA and other prospect sites rank us, I just want to win.

[NrM]

I completely disagree with you chuck.

[ettin]

The more I look at other teams and their rosters I become increasingly convinced that most, if not all, of our offseason acquisitions of pitching will come through trade and those trades will be for young, cost controlled starters in AAA or AA who are capable of starting the 2014 season on the Angels 25-man roster.

 

That being said I think there will be at least one pitcher acquired in free agency and Jimenez is an option with his high K/9 rate and resurgence in the league. Vargas coming back as an innings eater is fine with me as well.

 

We need a one-year reboot with youth-infused pitching and I think it is quite possible that we could actively contend doing it, despite the quick rebuild.

[HaloCory22]

If Ubaldo is the ace of our staff then we're in more trouble than we thought.

[NrM]

Who cares how much tanaka will cost when most of it wont count towards the luxury tax and payroll, and also not cost a draft pick.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Poozy

[YouthofToday]

Who cares how much tanaka will cost when most of it wont count towards the luxury tax and payroll, and also not cost a draft pick.

Exactly.

[mp170.6]

That being said I think there will be at least one pitcher acquired in free agency and Jimenez is an option with his high K/9 rate and resurgence in the league. Vargas coming back as an innings eater is fine with me as well.

 

There's really no point in acquiring better starting pitching if the bullpen still sucks.  As I mentioned a few posts up, Ubaldo has control problems, throws lots of pitches, and this season averaged 5.68 innings per start.  Whatever advantage he might bring would be cancelled out by the crappy Angels bullpen.

 

What the Angels need is a starting pitching staff who can reliably throw 7 innings five days a week.  That would minimize the effects of poor bullpen depth. 

Edited November 3, 2013 by mp170.6

[Angel Oracle]

Is he putting less pressure on his wrist on his backside of his delivery? MLB Network talked about that when he was traded to the Indians. That put a lot of torque on his wrist.

[tdawg87]

Who cares how much tanaka will cost when most of it wont count towards the luxury tax and payroll, and also not cost a draft pick.

 

I agree. Though I don't blame Arte if he is unwilling to spend $100 million just to negotiate a contract.

[Tank]

The guy was bad for most of his current contract and turns it around the last half a contract year. Pitching is always at a premium and the FA market is thin. I hope the angels aren't the team that hands him a multi year contract.

[Corona]

Not caring about the draft picks is what has plunged this team into high payroll/low performance results.

The Angels need to step away from the mortgage the future practices since they have already blown several drafts in a row. Ulbaldo is nottgat player that a team with a weak minor leagues should be giving up a midfle pick in the first round. He just doesn't have the stable resume.

The Angels need to give Vargas a qualifying offer and quit fing around with worrying if he accepts. If he does you have at least a one year rental at the league going price. You may be able to get a lower overall number with a three year deal or if he bolts you have a draft pick instead of giving him away for free.

F no for dealing away too much talent for Price and having 2 years of top arb money or even more if theytry a contract extension. Giving up Sappington will bite the Angels ass as much as Corbin or Skaggs. Price will bolt to the Yankees and we will be out two players still under club control and a young arm that is probably going to be MLB ready in two seasons.

Stop the madness.

This post destroyed this thread.

[Scott34]

No simply because we would be giving up a pick.

[Chuck]

I completely disagree with you chuck.

And that's perfectly fine.

[Blarg]

Who cares how much tanaka will cost when most of it wont count towards the luxury tax and payroll, and also not cost a draft pick.

 

Exactly.

 

Exactly what? You win the bid on Tanaka and he comes free for 5 years?

 

Do any of you think Tanaka is going to accept the same as Darvish (about $9.3 Million per year) or do you think that just maybe his agent will be thinking more than Darvish?

 

Yeah, let's just be realistic and go with more.

[YouthofToday]

Exactly what? You win the bid on Tanaka and he comes free for 5 years?

Do any of you think Tanaka is going to accept the same as Darvish (about $9.3 Million per year) or do you think that just maybe his agent will be thinking more than Darvish?

Yeah, let's just be realistic and go with more.

His paycheck doesn't come out of my bank account + he won't cost us to lose our 1st round pick. What's your point?

[Blarg]

My point is the as backwards math everyone is using to justify Tanaka thinking somehow he is the guy that keeps the Angels under competitive balance tax.

Tanaka's posting bid will be more than what the Angels would pay if the go over the cap with another pitcher. And it is an up front big dollar payout that is non differed along with whatever long term contract is hammered out.

There are other options that won't cost the Angels draft picks that make more economic sense than Tanaka even if a short term cost pushes payroll over the cap.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

...and David Price is going to cost an arm and a league.

 

If it's the National League, I still do the deal. 

[Docwaukee]

My point is the as backwards math everyone is using to justify Tanaka thinking somehow he is the guy that keeps the Angels under competitive balance tax.

Tanaka's posting bid will be more than what the Angels would pay if the go over the cap with another pitcher. And it is an up front big dollar payout that is non differed along with whatever long term contract is hammered out.

There are other options that won't cost the Angels draft picks that make more economic sense than Tanaka even if a short term cost pushes payroll over the cap.

but most of those players suck. 

 

the point is that if you are going to spend a shitpot full of cash, then it needs to be for a really good player.  Tanaka is likely to be the best pitcher the halos have access to for the next 3 years. 

 

The midling SP free agent is the worst value out there in my opinion.  So many of these guys that get the 2-4yr/15-50mil deals end up being horrible. 

 

Ubaldo is gonna get 4/60 I think.  he's as likely to completely suck as be good. 

[Second Base]

Tanaka is going to cost too much for a non-proven commodity while guys like Ervin and Ubaldo are going to cost too much because of their market and inconsistencies.  Plus, the Angels are almost forced to not exceed the luxury tax line for the sake of their future expenditures and they need to collect all the high draft picks they can get.  I mean you'd think the right move for now and in the future would be obvious at this point.

 

The Angels have to trade for young, cost controlled SP.  Yeah, it's going to hurt.  It's going to cost guys like Mark Trumbo, Peter Bourjos and Howie Kendrick.  But when you have guys like Mike Trout, Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton on your team you need to depend on them to propel the offense.  

 

I'd expect more pitchers like Lance Lynn, Erasmo Ramirez and Phil Hughes rather than Tanaka, Ubaldo or Matt Garza. 

[Blarg]

This post destroyed this thread.

You are right, the spelling and grammar certainly lowered the bar. Edited November 3, 2013 by Eric Notti