Olney: Trumbo & Bourjos on Trade Block

[tdawg87]

Wasn't the posting fee for Darvish like $60 million? I'm not sure I see it going higher than that, considering by all reports Darvish is/was a much better pitcher.

Also, the posting fee doesn't count towards payroll, at least in regards to the salary tax.

[SoWhat]

Angry Arte is willing to give 10 years/$240 million and 5 years/$125 million to two declining sluggers, but not 5-6 years/$120 million including rights fee for the best pitcher in Japan the past two seasons?

Re the Raviners: What's the latest on Zach Lee's progress? They of course need a 2B.

HK for Lee/Withrow?

They already signed Guerrero to play 2B next season.

[Angel Oracle]

I forgot about Guerrero.    Cross the Raviners off of the list then, they don't need Bourjos, Trumbo, or Kendrick. 

[VariousCrap]

Unless Arte is willing to pony up at least $60 million in a transfer fee + a $60 million contract this isn't happening.

I would peg our odds at landing Tanaka at less than 5 percent.

 

 

 

Of course you base your odds on absoulutely nothing.

 

We know the Angels sent someone to watch Tanaka.  They wouldn't have done that if they were not interested.

[VariousCrap]

The Dodgers and the Yankees are in on Tanaka.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a posting fee north of $70 million.  

 

 

 

 

The Yankees have said their willingness to sign Tanaka will depend on what happens with A-Rod.

[Scott34]

I'm in the minority here but I think his glove needs some work, I thought Keith Law pegged it when he said he's not loading up, and I think that would get exposed more at the MLB level.  He needs some time to work on things still, but the kid has freaky quick hands and he inside outs balls really well.  He's got a lot of encouraging signs as a hitter, his Line Drive rate is better than the league average, his GB rate and FB rate are were you want them to be, he popped up more than the league average but not by much.  Swinging K rate was about 3% below the league average and his non HBP, and IBB walk rate was right at the league average, so he's not a hack despite not being known for his discipline.   Last year he saw 3.81 P/PA which is better than 90% of what the Angels players managed.  Calhoun for instance was at 3.91.

 

The half of season of AAA may or may not be optimistic, he made a pretty significant jump forward last year, so it's not impossible to think he could repeat that sort of an improvement at AAA, but I think a full season of AAA would be the safer bet. 

 

My guess is that the park in AAA will inflate his triple slash stats to a degree and there will be people clamoring for him to get called up.

 

Agree on your first couple points, but I think his bat will eventually be good enough to overlook the glove.  I hate comps but sorta like Kendrick when he came up, with maybe a little less bat but more discipline.  I don't necessarily care a ton about his range but right now his hands are like bricks which is super weird considering his controlled hands at the dish.

 

Give him a long look in ST, and send him to AAA until June if he doesn't wow in Spring.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Scott34

[gotbeer]

Wasn't the posting fee for Darvish like $60 million? I'm not sure I see it going higher than that, considering by all reports Darvish is/was a much better pitcher.

Also, the posting fee doesn't count towards payroll, at least in regards to the salary tax.

 

I think it's going to be higher, not because Tanaka is better.  But because so many teams need top end starting pitching this offseason, and that the FA pitching market just sucks.  At least last season, there was Greinke and some minor pitchers to chose from.  

[ettin]

"Don't be fooled by the balls that I caught! I'm still! I'm still Peter on the block! Used to catch a little now a catch a lot! But I still know where I came from!"

[Chris]

Can't wait until we budget $300 million for Tanaka, miss out, and get Cano instead.

[Second Base]

Well I think with Lindsey we have to look at what he's prepared for vs what the Angels actually need from 2B.  Lindsey can play 2B in the majors right now.  He wouldn't succeed, but he also wouldn't be the worst.  In essence the Angels need more offensive production from that spot than what Lindsey can give right now based on what Kendrick's done for this team in the past.  

 

Even if Lindsey spends a half season in AAA, I don't think he's do much more than .250 and carry his weight.  But in a year or two Lindsey won't just be a replacement option, he'll be a legitimate part of the order. 

 

If Grant Green can hit .280 like he did and not embarrass himself defensively at 2B (it hurt to watch) until Lindsey's ready, then absolutely, trade Kendrick and see what you can get.  

[Angel Oracle]

Who in this org is scouting these declining sluggers (Wells, Ghost Albert Pujols, Hackilton) before we acquire them?    Squiggy?

[tdawg87]

Did AO literally just drop a Squiggy reference on angelswin?

[YouthofToday]

Who in this org is scouting these declining sluggers (Wells, Ghost Albert Pujols, Hackilton) before we acquire them? Squiggy?

Special Assistant to Arte Moreno Tony Reagins?

[Angel Oracle]

It's still hard to believe that "Squiggy" was actually a Halos scout at one time. 

 

That being said, this isn't a dump on him at all, given that he's fought the MS disease for many years and worked hard on behalf of various MS charities. 

It's an indictment on the people that have been hired as scouts over the years by this org.    This org doesn't have the best track record in that area, to be sure.

 

Bad GMs, bad scouts, bad decisions, meddling owners, ignoring foreign players for several years, and changing org philosophy over and over instead of having one long term strategy = sounds like West Coast Mess and Cubs to me.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

Agree on your first couple points, but I think his bat will eventually be good enough to overlook the glove.  I hate comps but sorta like Kendrick when he came up, with maybe a little less bat but more discipline.  I don't necessarily care a ton about his range but right now his hands are like bricks which is super weird considering his controlled hands at the dish.

 

Give him a long look in ST, and send him to AAA until June if he doesn't wow in Spring.

 

 

His bat would have to very very good for it to overlook his glove, right now he wouldn't come close to what HK gives the Angels with either the glove or bat and the gap in the bats is significant.  Run prevention has been shown to be more important than run production, defense at 2B gets underrated but as Grant Green showed a bad defensive 2B is painful to watch.

 

Neither guy is a legit option IMHO...   Trade Trumbo...

Edited October 31, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[ettin]

Did AO literally just drop a Squiggy reference on angelswin?

 

I'm going to go pour myself a Milk and Pepsi as this unfolds.

[Scott34]

His bat would have to very very good for it to overlook his glove, right now he wouldn't come close to what HK gives the Angels with either the glove or bat and the gap in the bats is significant.  Run prevention has been shown to be more important than run production, defense at 2B gets underrated but as Grant Green showed a bad defensive 2B is painful to watch.

 

Neither guy is a legit option IMHO...   Trade Trumbo...

 

Neither guy is a legit option in 2014 but down the road Lindsey is.  The real question seems to be is the downgrade at second worth it if the rotation is significantly improved.  I would say yes, depending on the pitcher.

[tdawg87]

The Angels may need to look for a cheap FA option at 2nd if Kendrick is traded. I suggested Kelly Johnson before. He's not very good but he's decent defensively and has some good pop for a second baseman. He may be a good, cheap holdover until Lindsey is ready.

[Scott34]

I'm really not as down on Green as IP, who I really respect the opinion of.  There's no doubt his defense is pretty bad but I'm fine with him being a 1 WAR player next year.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The Angels may need to look for a cheap FA option at 2nd if Kendrick is traded. I suggested Kelly Johnson before. He's not very good but he's decent defensively and has some good pop for a second baseman. He may be a good, cheap holdover until Lindsey is ready.

I was keeping an eye on kelly johnson too. That wouldn't be a bad alternative short term if we could get a real arm for howie.

[Inside Pitch]

Neither guy is a legit option in 2014 but down the road Lindsey is.  The real question seems to be is the downgrade at second worth it if the rotation is significantly improved.  I would say yes, depending on the pitcher.

 

You can get that upgrade without weakening the defense and the offense and impacting the pitching you are trying to obtain by moving Trumbo.

[Scott34]

You can get that upgrade without weakening the defense and the offense and impacting the pitching you are trying to obtain by moving Trumbo.

 

Unless it's Amaro, I don't think so.  But hell, move both.  Calhoun is literally better than Trumbo so you would have a double-pronged upgrade with that.

[ettin]

I'm really not as down on Green as IP, who I really respect the opinion of.  There's no doubt his defense is pretty bad but I'm fine with him being a 1 WAR player next year.

 

I don't know what all the fuss is about, to be honest. A platoon at 2nd is probably the more likely occurence between the three of Lindsey, Green, and Field. You can get improved production with a properly managed platoon.

 

Also I am higher on Field. He has the ability to get on base and is formerly a shortstop who could probably provide average or better defense.

[Inside Pitch]

I'm really not as down on Green as IP, who I really respect the opinion of.  There's no doubt his defense is pretty bad but I'm fine with him being a 1 WAR player next year.

 

 

 

His offense would need to ramp up significantly to overcome his atrocious defense.  Dude is a statue who can't pivot to save his life, even worse he gave up on balls left and right -- worst defensive player the Angels have rolled out at 2B since Johnny Ray..  

 

He was a negative WAR player using Fangraphs version of WAR, he was 0.0 WAR player at bWar again, because of that defense.   

[Inside Pitch]

Unless it's Amaro, I don't think so.  But hell, move both.  Calhoun is literally better than Trumbo so you would have a double-pronged upgrade with that.

 

 

There are teams much like many fans on this board that are infatuated with HRs and RBIs.   I have friends in two MLB front offices that like Trumbo in the NL and think he's got massive value there.