Let's get realistic about the pitching

[NrM]

Let's not talk about the 2002 pitching.  I believe it was an anomaly - it was wonderful, but oh my, the team had to win 9-8.

 

I like Vargas, because he wants to stay and maybe be a tad cheaper and had good stats.  JD cannot fix this in one year - it will take years to bring kids up through the system.  But JD has to focus on re-building the farm system's pitching.  Except for Weaver, Trout and the two pieces of royalty the team signed - everyone should be considered tradeable. 

So then you're suggesting a rebuild. Why keep weaver if you want them to rebuild?

Edited October 13, 2013 by Poozy

[EDinTUSTIN]

I really think our best chance to get a young starter is to give up aybar.  Go with Lucho and Romine on the left side and win with defense.  I'm telling you, we won't miss Aybar's bat but we would miss Howie's if that's the route we go.  People are gonna be less than thrilled with Grant Green. 

The problem is, Aybar won't bring a good young starter. Players like him are a dime a dozen.

[Ohtaniland]

I really think our best chance to get a young starter is to give up aybar.  Go with Lucho and Romine on the left side and win with defense.  I'm telling you, we won't miss Aybar's bat but we would miss Howie's if that's the route we go.  People are gonna be less than thrilled with Grant Green. 

 

Aybar and Lucho will be on the 2014 Angels opening day lineup card. Because Albert says so. 

[Scott34]

Jonathan Sanchez, who ended up throwing 13 innings this season and had an 11+ ERA?

 

 

Anibal...

[shellback]

I really think our best chance to get a young starter is to give up aybar.  Go with Lucho and Romine on the left side and win with defense.  I'm telling you, we won't miss Aybar's bat but we would miss Howie's if that's the route we go.  People are gonna be less than thrilled with Grant Green. 

 

this. shake a tree and a glove will fall out.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Let's not talk about the 2002 pitching.  I believe it was an anomaly - it was wonderful, but oh my, the team had to win 9-8.

 

 

 

Did you follow the 2002 team? They finished second in the AL in ERA, 0.01 runs behind Oakland, second in park adjusted ERA+ and first in runs allowed being the only team to allow fewer than 4 runs per game.

[DMVol]

Mashing our way to the top was the plan this year...we were good offensively, even w/ Pujols hurt and Hamilton underperforming.....the plan needs to change this year....

[ettin]

I still feel like one of the biggest mistakes made last off season wasn't letting Greinke go, but not pursuing Sanchez. 

 

Although I agree that Anibal is/should have been a target we always forget that maybe the player himself didn't want to come here? This is why second-guessing is a slippery slope. What if we had made an equally compelling offer and Sanchez just decided that he wanted to be in Detroit?

[SoWhat]

You also can't ignore how well the Angels played with Blanton and Hanson removed from the rotation. I might be the only one, but I think there's a chance the Angels can grab a wild card next season if they can get their hands on 2 solid starters and 2-3 bullpen arms. It's not impossible like some are saying

[SoWhat]

Although I agree that Anibal is/should have been a target we always forget that maybe the player himself didn't want to come here? This is why second-guessing is a slippery slope. What if we had made an equally compelling offer and Sanchez just decided that he wanted to be in Detroit?

He was just about to sign with the Cubs right before the Tigers topped their offer. I think it was more about the money than where he preferred to play, obviously by coming so close to signing with a cellar dweller.

Edited October 13, 2013 by SoWhat

[Troll Daddy]

2 games 2 runs ... First time in playoff history

[sneaky_flute]

The Angels' starting pitching is fine. You don't need 5 aces to compete. Their only real area of weakness is the bullpen which needs to be overhauled. the 2011 Rangers had the worst bullpen in the majors for the first half of the season and wouldn't have made the playoffs without some serious moves at the deadline. At one point their bullpen was comprised of Cody Eppley, Brett Tomko, Dave Bush, and Arthur Rhodes.

[NrM]

The Angels' starting pitching is fine. You don't need 5 aces to compete. Their only real area of weakness is the bullpen which needs to be overhauled. the 2011 Rangers had the worst bullpen in the majors for the first half of the season and wouldn't have made the playoffs without some serious moves at the deadline. At one point their bullpen was comprised of Cody Eppley, Brett Tomko, Dave Bush, and Arthur Rhodes.

 

lol

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I'm juat as envious as you guys of the pitching.

But are we saying boston is a pitching team?

 

Compared to us, yes.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Angels' starting pitching is fine.

 

Easy to say that until we face two Detroit pitchers and they carry a no-hitter deep into both playoff games, and we haven't even faced their ace yet. Just ask Boston.

[The God of Runs]

The Angels' starting pitching is fine. You don't need 5 aces to compete. Their only real area of weakness is the bullpen which needs to be overhauled. the 2011 Rangers had the worst bullpen in the majors for the first half of the season and wouldn't have made the playoffs without some serious moves at the deadline. At one point their bullpen was comprised of Cody Eppley, Brett Tomko, Dave Bush, and Arthur Rhodes.

But, you need at least one ace. And, that's the whole point I was trying to make. We don't have an ace on this team. We don't have a guy who if they're going against a Verlander or a Kershaw, could hang along with them.

Weaver's not that guy anymore. He's not on top of his game as he once was. Tanaka might be that ace, but you would have to make a $100 million gamble to find out. Spending money hasn't worked out at all, and the solution is to spend more of it??

Look, all I know I that this organization needs to go a different direction or have a different approach when putting together a ball club both short term and long term. It's been four years since we had a crack at the ring. That's way too long and unacceptable. If we didn't have Trout, it'd be a whole lot worse.

[Docwaukee]

But, you need at least one ace. And, that's the whole point I was trying to make. We don't have an ace on this team. We don't have a guy who if they're going against a Verlander or a Kershaw, could hang along with them.

Weaver's not that guy anymore. He's not on top of his game as he once was. Tanaka might be that ace, but you would have to make a $100 million gamble to find out. Spending money hasn't worked out at all, and the solution is to spend more of it??

Look, all I know I that this organization needs to go a different direction or have a different approach when putting together a ball club both short term and long term. It's been four years since we had a crack at the ring. That's way too long and unacceptable. If we didn't have Trout, it'd be a whole lot worse.

how do you go in a different direction short and long term to shore up the pen and get a #1 starter without spending money? 

 

the minor league system is 3-5 years away from getting back to middle of the pack.  they have the right idea going heavy on arms, but it's gonna take awhile. 

 

they aren't going to get a #1 from trading anyone on the current roster not named trout.  In fact, Tanaka is likely the best pitcher that will be available to them for the next 3 or more years unless Richards really comes into his own.  Tanaka appears to be a solid #2, less likely an ace, and at worst a #3.  In current value he's probably gonna cost a bit more than Wilson.  He's much younger and likely has more upside. 

 

Don't get me wrong, they need to get younger on the pitching side and in particular the starters, and I have no problem with trading guys like Trumbo, Bourjos and Aybar to help that along, but they might get 2 years of solid production from Pujols and Hamilton and their window with Trout is four more years.  You have to put together a team that has a chance to win or else their is no point of having him. 

 

If Tanaka is a bust for the Halos, I could stomach that more than seeing them sign a thirty something FA for a bit less or, god forbid, going after another hitter and giving up more draft picks.  I'd rather see Tanaka bust than the team do nothing. 

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dochalo

[Tyler]

Do you guys only watch other teams play in the postseason?

[ettin]

He was just about to sign with the Cubs right before the Tigers topped their offer. I think it was more about the money than where he preferred to play, obviously by coming so close to signing with a cellar dweller.

 

I don't think I would assume he ever would have signed with the Cubs when he can use that organization as leverage to possibly get more money from the Tigers and any other "mystery" club that were possibly involved. More than likely Anibal wanted to sign a lucrative contract with a contending team.

 

Edited October 14, 2013 by ettin

[Angel Oracle]

Tanaka satisfies many criteria:  age (25), stuff, variety of pitches, and doesn't cost players or draft picks just some $10 million/year tops against the luxury tax.  

 

But watch Arte Moreno sign Garza instead.

[Ohtaniland]

Tanaka satisfies many criteria:  age (25), stuff, variety of pitches, and doesn't cost players or draft picks just some $10 million/year tops against the luxury tax.  

 

But watch Arte Moreno sign Garza instead.

 

Arte won't sign either one. He signed Albert Freakin Pujols.

[HaloMilliVanilli]

1.  Push hard for Tanaka.

2.  Peruse trade market for Kendrick, Aybar, Bourjos, Trumbo, Iannetta and Calhoun.  You're not trading all of them, but if we can trade 2-4 of them (potentially 2 in one deal to increase return) to get young arms for the rotation and bullpen one at the very least has to inquire.

3.  Submit QO for Vargas.

 

Worst case scenario, we have a rotation of Weaver, Wilson, Richards and Vargas (needing to find one more arm via trade or cheap f/a), money for the bullpen, and all of our draft picks.  There is no instance in which we should be giving up draft picks.  Draft arms.  Clearly, there are hitters to be found every year in free agency but not top-end starting pitchers.  Draft and develop pitching and buy hitting as necessary.

[Tank]

Do you guys only watch other teams play in the postseason?

 

for the last four years, yes.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Tank