Let's get realistic about the pitching

[The God of Runs]

After watching the Dodgers and Cardinals duke it out for the first two games, I realize that we have nowhere near the starting pitching to contend for a World Series. At best, Weaver would be a #3 on either team. Wilson would be a #4. And, the rest would be in the bullpen or off the post-season roster. The bullpen? Forget about it. Frieri and maybe De La Rosa can hang. Getting Tanaka could solve some of these issues, but he's no sure bet either.

Really, the only way the Angels can contend is by mashing their way to the top, which would require Pujols and Hamilton to play up to their capabilities. And we have yet to see that. It just feels like it'll be a while before the Halos are back to where we all want them to be. And, that's assuming that Dipoto doesn't make anymore stupid moves.

[eligrba]

Yep.  Watching this series clarifies the level of suckage the pitching staff has.  It is refreshing to see pitching and not some guy on the mound throwing the same pitch in the same spot.

 

Molina is worth every penny.  Boy, I wish we had a Molina.....oh wait we did.  Both were allowed to leave for Scioscia's pet.....

 

Many people are critical of dumbass moves by Dipoto.......I think he is simply living up to the tradition.

 

Angels Baseball: Just Watch and Wonder

[Ohtaniland]

After watching the Dodgers and Cardinals duke it out for the first two games, I realize that we have nowhere near the starting pitching to contend for a World Series. At best, Weaver would be a #3 on either team. Wilson would be a #4. And, the rest would be in the bullpen or off the post-season roster. The bullpen? Forget about it. Frieri and maybe De La Rosa can hang. Getting Tanaka could solve some of these issues, but he's no sure bet either.

Really, the only way the Angels can contend is by mashing their way to the top, which would require Pujols and Hamilton to play up to their capabilities. And we have yet to see that. It just feels like it'll be a while before the Halos are back to where we all want them to be. And, that's assuming that Dipoto doesn't make anymore stupid moves.

 

Pujols and Hamilton will continue to disappoint us for years to come. They'll never bring us their past MVP type years. 

[Bruce Nye]

Pujols and Hamilton are pitchers?

[Scott34]

There's only 1 way: Stop giving up our picks and give Ric Wilson the opportunity to draft pitching.  2012 and 2013 look good.  With the 15th and 45th pick next year, and Dipoto's staff fully in place, I expect them to draft 2 high-ceiling guys.

[Docwaukee]

yeah.  the dodgers pitching is very good, but the Cards are just ridiculous.  Miller, Wacha, Kelly, Martinez, Rosenthal.  That's just stupid. 

 

Dipoto has made some bad moves in the FA market but it's not like he dished away a bunch of minor league pitching prospects.  I'll consider the loss of draft picks, poor pitching drafts, trades by previous GMs, the trading of players that could have made others expendable in trades for pitching to be a total org fail and not just that of Dipoto. 

 

JD has the unfortunate task of fixing it in one year or I think he's done.  Although that would be an unreasonable thing to put on a gm, I think that's a fair thing to ask of him considering how bad some of the other moves that have been made that he's associated with. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I'm juat as envious as you guys of the pitching.

But are we saying boston is a pitching team?

[Docwaukee]

There's only 1 way: Stop giving up our picks and give Ric Wilson the opportunity to draft pitching.  2012 and 2013 look good.  With the 15th and 45th pick next year, and Dipoto's staff fully in place, I expect them to draft 2 high-ceiling guys.

what about a potential comp for Vargas?  could get us another. 

[Docwaukee]

I'm juat as envious as you guys of the pitching.

But are we saying boston is a pitching team?

3rd in pitching WAR for MLB - 3rd for SP, 4th for pen.  pretty impressive considering that park. 

[Scott34]

what about a potential comp for Vargas?  could get us another. 

 

Yeah but I doubt he turns down 14M if we even offer it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yeah, good point doc.

I think its more bullpen for them though. I think one more starter and we can hang with them starting wise (pen notwithstanding)

[Docwaukee]

I'm juat as envious as you guys of the pitching.

But are we saying boston is a pitching team?

I see your point though.  Lester and Lackey are solid.  Dempster and Doubront are #4/5ish.  Peavy is overrated imo and probably a #3/4.  We could reproduce that with an addition or two.  The problem is that they have Buchholz.  He's a #2 with fringe #1 ability.  Tanaka could be that guy for us, but there is really no one else.  

 

Also, the upper part of their pen is outstanding.  We're three players away from even being good.  It could happen, but it would take some magic.   

[greginpsca]

Our starting pitchers in 2002 were not very good either. They just had a knack of being able to get to the 6 inning and keep us in the game. Then let the pen and the hitters take over. The Reds starters during the "Big Red Machine " days were also that way. I have always though , as a rule, that the most balanced team wins. Pitching, hitting defense. etc.

[ScottT]

The Red Sox starting rotation isn't that good.   A year ago, it looked bad.  They are 8 wins away from a World Series title.   A lot can change in a year or two.  

 

The Cardinals are ridiculous.  It is amazing how many players they've drafted and developed.  Guys that weren't high picks, don't have amazing tools, didn't tear up the minors, but become all stars in the majors.   

[Ohtaniland]

Pujols and Hamilton are pitchers?

 

No Bruce I was responding to the OP's comment...  the only way the Angels can contend is by mashing their way to the top, which would require Pujols and Hamilton to play up to their capabilities. 

Edited October 13, 2013 by Hamiltown

[Docwaukee]

I still feel like one of the biggest mistakes made last off season wasn't letting Greinke go, but not pursuing Sanchez. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Obviously were all hoping for tanaka. And hoping we can retain vargas and flip someone for at least a mid rotation starter.

That's all very doable. And I'm sure there's a couple of relievers available this winter that upgrade us.

A lot has to happen. But just as everything went wrong this year for us, a few lucky breaks could get us back in it next year.

[SoWhat]

I honestly don't really care to bring back Vargas, hopefully they can make a trade for someone who'll be an upgrade over him. 

[Splint7438]

I remember the bourgeous to the cardinals rumors last year. I wonder if any of these young BP arms that are shining for St. Louis this year were among those being discussed.

[HaloNation]

blanton and hanson disagree

[Scott34]

I still feel like one of the biggest mistakes made last off season wasn't letting Greinke go, but not pursuing Sanchez. 

 

No doubt.  I think I started a thread compaing Greinke and Sanchez and it was super close.

[tennischmp]

Lackey and Buchholz are having career years. That and the addition of Peavy(who I believe is their best pitcher).

Edited October 13, 2013 by tennischmp

[Bruce Nye]

Let's not talk about the 2002 pitching.  I believe it was an anomaly - it was wonderful, but oh my, the team had to win 9-8.

 

I like Vargas, because he wants to stay and maybe be a tad cheaper and had good stats.  JD cannot fix this in one year - it will take years to bring kids up through the system.  But JD has to focus on re-building the farm system's pitching.  Except for Weaver, Trout and the two pieces of royalty the team signed - everyone should be considered tradeable. 

[Docwaukee]

I really think our best chance to get a young starter is to give up aybar.  Go with Lucho and Romine on the left side and win with defense.  I'm telling you, we won't miss Aybar's bat but we would miss Howie's if that's the route we go.  People are gonna be less than thrilled with Grant Green. 

[Taylor]

No doubt.  I think I started a thread compaing Greinke and Sanchez and it was super close.

 

Jonathan Sanchez, who ended up throwing 13 innings this season and had an 11+ ERA?