is this the stupidest organization in baseball?

[Torridd]

I guarantee some of the same folks defending Dipoto were calling for Stoneman's head.  The fact is Stoneman is clearly the best GM the Angels have ever had and he was much, much better than he ever got credit for being.

I would say that's arguable, mt. However, I agree that he was underappreciated. My philosophy is generally to give someone a "solid" chance and I don't think Dipoto has gotten it yet. Stoneman annoyed me to no end because it seemed he never took any risks. I think that has to be one of the top traits of a GM. The only problem I see with Dipoto so far is Blanton. It made no sense to get him based on his stats. I could overlook everything else. That's also why I didn't have a problem with Reagins. I could see what he was trying to do.

[Torridd]

Good ideas that don't work are what we call bad ideas.

That isn't very insightful and easy to say. Often good ideas that don't work make the creator smarter for next time.

 

You're dealing with human beings so nothing is an exact science. Dipotot got Madson and Burnett based on their potential. Who would know they wouldn't help the team at all? I don't think it's the equivalent of acquiring an Eric Chavez.

[Torridd]

I think the fact that Moreno kept both Dipoto and Scioscia is an indication that he knows he screwed up!

Perhaps, but if that's the case, why did it take so long to see it?

[Angel Oracle]

If only Stoneman had been willing to on occasion make an important deal, where truly needed, and offered arb to impending FAs where they would have likely not accepted.   

Otherwise, he knew his baseball and how to run an org.   He did willingly dive into FA after 2003, with excellent results.

[stormngt]

Perhaps, but if that's the case, why did it take so long to see it?

 

I always wondered why so many fans are so arrogant that they feel like the must see people admit their mistakes.  Most people when the make a mistake they don't advertise it.  They realize it from self reflection.  Hell Moreno probably realize he made a mistake early in the season.  Does that mean he needs to send some type of message to the fans?

[Torridd]

I always wondered why so many fans are so arrogant that they feel like the must see people admit their mistakes.  Most people when the make a mistake they don't advertise it.  They realize it from self reflection.  Hell Moreno probably realize he made a mistake early in the season.  Does that mean he needs to send some type of message to the fans?

I'm not saying he needed to advertise it, but if he realized it long ago why this "stance" that made him seem he was going to fire someone?

 

We all make mistakes, but the way he spoke to the media made many of us think that he was getting ready to kick butt.

[Docwaukee]

If only Stoneman had been willing to on occasion make an important deal, where truly needed, and offered arb to impending FAs where they would have likely not accepted.   

Otherwise, he knew his baseball and how to run an org.   He did willingly dive into FA after 2003, with excellent results.

this was my one nit in regards to stoneman.  they had a window of opportunity to improve an already playoff bound team.  The others in the division were weak and the team was able to take advantage of that yet come playoff time we were over matched. 

 

Reagins first trade was his best.  That 2008 team was solid.  I really think the heartbreak of 2009 was the straw that broke the camel's back for Arte.  He was so close he could taste it and went into full court press closely thereafter. 

 

In fact, the 2008 and 2009 teams are a good example of how to win with what we currently have in place. 2009 especially.  Excellent offense.  Mediocre SP.  Decent Bullpen. 

 

I'd like to think that with a couple of additions, the pen and sp could be even better than that year.  Depth is still an issue and I'd unsure how that is going to be addressed considering the lack of SP in the minors.   

[stormngt]

I'm not saying he needed to advertise it, but if he realized it long ago why this "stance" that made him seem he was going to fire someone?

 

We all make mistakes, but the way he spoke to the media made many of us think that he was getting ready to kick butt.

 

It made sense that Moreno would want to fire someone.  However, after reflection he felt he made the wrong decisions.  He did clearly say he "had to look in the mirror".  That means he was taking the blame.  However, he can take the blame and still want people fired, can't he?

[avejoe1]

What then is the definition of a stupid organization?

 

Would it be one that makes a FA signing like Gary Matthews Jr ( giving a 1st round pick to the Rangers) and then has to wait out years of that contract in order to rid itself of such a bad decision?  What is the excuse later when the same team goes out and trades for a Vernon Wells, not only taking on more money in another long-term contract but also giving away a good player (Napoli) for nothing?  As such, the Wells trade was not only bad but WORSE than the Matthews signing.  This is irrefutable.  It is the height of stupidity to make a bad decision (Matthews), think about it, analyze it, go though season after season regretting such a miserable mistake, and then go out and make an even bigger stupid mistake (Wells).

 

What is unbelievable is the number of mistakes this organization makes.  Every year it is another intended short term fix that results in nothing positive.  Kazmir, Haren, Greinke, Pujols, Hamilton, Madsen, Burnett, Hansen, Blanton, ...  When will this list be long enough before someone realizes this isn't the way to build a long-term winning team?  I think the Angels have worked long and hard to make these FA acquisitions and trades.  They have earned the term "STUPID" going about it with unyielding determination.  The Angels have a right to now wear the term with pride.

 

Please forgive any grammar or spelling errors.

Edited October 10, 2013 by avejoe1

[Angel Oracle]

2008 may have been the most frustrating post-season.   

The team was primed at the plate (Texeira's acquisition), and on the mound.

Lackey pitched masterfully in game 1, except for one pitch to Jason Bay, and the hitters had no clue vs. Lester. 

Then Santana implodes in game 2's first inning, after having his best season as a Halo before being traded a year ago.

Finally, there was the game 4 that should have been won except for a muffed squeeze by Aybar's dance and horrible tag call on Willits at 3B on the rundown.  

 

That team would have then had HFA against the Rays in the ALCS, and then again in the WS against the Phillies.

 

Average Joe has a good point.   

Before 2009, the org's moves worked most of the time, as acquired players like Figgins, Appier, Fullmer, Vlad, Colon, Escobar, OC, Hunter, etc. and even for one season Guillen all contributed.  

But ever since late August 2009 (Kazmir trade including the red hot in 2013 Alex Torres), it's been an onslaught of bad or questionable moves, that combined with virtually ignoring foreign players for several years and Eddie Bane's toolsy HS players heavy drafts, left this org in questionable shape by the time Reagins was removed as GM two years ago.   

It will still take another 2-3 years to get this org right again, if they cut back drastically on the bad/questionable moves and continue to re-emphasize foreign player development and a balanced draft each year between pitchers and hitters, HS and college. 

Edited October 10, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

We're getting there since two people are gone and none of them are the two dumb Mikes.

[Lou]

legitimate question.  Maybe the Mets are stupider?

if you don't like 'stupid' then maybe worst-run?

in the last 5-6 years this has gone from one of the best franchises in all of sports, to a complete disaster.  Horrible decision after horrible decision, from the FO on down.  I'm truly embarrassed these days to say I'm an Angels fan.

 

(in before Bruce or storm make snotty comments)

good question

[mtangelsfan]

anyone who actually gets embarrassed because of how their favorite sports team is doing needs to get a life.

[ettin]

anyone who actually gets embarrassed because of how their favorite sports team is doing needs to get a life.

 

But, but, but, butt darts.

[ELEVEN]

But, but, but, butt darts.

Chris Berman calling a game of butt darts?

[Guest]

anyone who actually gets embarrassed because of how their favorite sports team is doing needs to get a life.

Says the guy with 7000 posts on an Angels fan forum. 

 

 

sorry I couldn't resist. 

[CanadianHalo]

We'll have our answer if Joyce is still our LF August 1st

[Jay]

At least WallyWorld is consistent throughout the years.

[eligrba]

I am not convinced that this organization is poorly ran or the stupidest, but I do think it has lost its' way.  Dipoto helped to reset the organizational focus on young pitching. I believe that the young pitchers Dipoto was able to acquire will help shape the success of the organization in the future. I just hope that the new GM will not piss away this position of strength (which took a few years to create) for immediate gratification.

[mtangelsfan]

I am not convinced that this organization is poorly ran or the stupidest, but I do think it has lost its' way.  Dipoto helped to reset the organizational focus on young pitching. I believe that the young pitchers Dipoto was able to acquire will help shape the success of the organization in the future. I just hope that the new GM will not piss away this position of strength (which took a few years to create) for immediate gratification.

 

So even though they haven't even hired the new GM yet, you assume they have "lost their way"?

 

That really doesn't make much sense.

[mtangelsfan]

Says the guy with 7000 posts on an Angels fan forum. 

 

 

sorry I couldn't resist. 

 

I've just been around a lot longer than you. 

[Stradling]

I am not convinced that this organization is poorly ran or the stupidest, but I do think it has lost its' way. Dipoto helped to reset the organizational focus on young pitching. I believe that the young pitchers Dipoto was able to acquire will help shape the success of the organization in the future. I just hope that the new GM will not piss away this position of strength (which took a few years to create) for immediate gratification.

Well whatever trade they make will cut into their position of strength. My hopes is that they trade for a piece that can be productive now and that we can keep long term.

[ELEVEN]

The smartest organization in sports would be envious of the deal we signed the best young player in the game to.