is this the stupidest organization in baseball?

[mtangelsfan]

I agree with wallyworld in the sense that we didn't need another hitter nearly as much as we needed pitching.  The fact that Hamilton has struggled is just salt in the wound.

[Adam]

If you're embarrassed by your connection to a professional sports franchise, you should probably focus on life a bit more. 

[Blarg]

If you're embarrassed by your connection to a professional sports franchise, you should probably focus on life a bit more.

Wait till he finds out Joyner used steroids.

[Vladfan]

I used to get angry and upset when the Angels would blow leads late in the game. I would be so pissed off that my wife would ask "why do you watch if it makes you angry" That was during the "good years".

 

3 years ago today.....my wife died at the age of 42 of cancer.

 

Since then I have realized that Angels baseball doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. It's just a game and the outcome is what it is. Yes.....I follow the Angels very closely but I definitely don't let it determine my  my daily moods anymore.

 

Being embarrassed by an organization that you have zero control over???? Re-align your priorities man!!!

[WallyWorld]

good lord, people.  embarrassed relative to sports and other teams. not embarrassed in a meaningful human being sort of way. jesus.

[tomsred]

Face it Wally, you got schooled by Vladfan.  You trying to wiggle out of it, that's what's embarrassing.

[Blarg]

So that kind of disengeuous embarrassed that girls do with other girls followed by a colective eeeeewwww!

Thanks for clearing that up.

[eaterfan]

I find it hard to believe that the same basic group of people (sans dipoto) that won 5 American West Division Titles can all of the sudden become brain dead.

 

Now, does that mean that I agree or understand every baseball decision that has been made, no way.  Clearly that last two years for sure have been extremely dissapointing and I would have been fine if Sosh or Dipoto got fired, or both of them.

 

I just have a hard time with the theory that Sosh somehow forgot how to manage or that he was a player's manager at one time and now he's not.

 

I'm not of the belief that Scioscia has forgotten how to manage. But as far as how the rest have gotten so stupid my response is this:

 

This organization isn't stupid. It's shortsighted and has no self-awareness. For years and years they have tried to win now by sacrificing the future. It caught up to them. The organization has been caught in a riptide for the last 4 years and keeps trying to struggle against it.

[Bruce Nye]

Wally whiffed, but he tried hard.

[Lhalo]

we do? 

We did until 2010. (I wouldn't include 2003 because Moreno didn't fully ow the team until some time in April.)

2003: 77-85, 19th in MLB

2004: 92-70, 6th in MLB

2005: 95-67, 3rd in MLB

2006: 89-73, 7th in MLB

2007: 94-68. 3rd in MLB

2008: 100-62, 1st in MLB

2009: 97-65, 2nd in MLB

2010: 80-82, 17th in MLB

2011: 86-76, 11th in MLB

2012: 89-73, 10th in MLB

2013: 78-84, 17th in MLB

[Lhalo]

*own

[Angelsjunky]

WallyWorld's question is perfectly valid. But the majority of replies to him is basically knee-jerk apologism.

 

As Lawrence just posted (actually supporting WW's question), the team has been reeling for four years, at least compared to 2004-09.

 

Its difficult to say when the bad decisions began. But the success of 2004-09 was pretty much based upon a combination of Stoneman's work, both in terms of player development and some savvy acquisitions, like Vlad before 2004. The success of the early Reagins years were largely in the wake of Stoneman's moves (of course Stoneman wasn't perfect; see "Matthews Jr, Gary").

 

But to reply to WW's question, I wouldn't say they are the stupiderist org in baseball, but they are not one of the smartest, and they may be in the bottom third or so in terms of "foWAR" (lol, tdawg). And I agree with you - payroll has to count, which is why the Athletics may be the smartest org in baseball, and Beane the highest gmWAR.

 

I'm curious what Dipoto would do without Arte's meddling. I'm hoping that keeping Dipoto means Arte gets that he ****ed up and is willing to take a step back and let Jerry give it a shot. I'm also hoping that Jerry has learned from his first two years on the job. I think he still has promise as a GM - his ideas are good, but they just don't seem to work out well.

[mtangelsfan]

I guarantee some of the same folks defending Dipoto were calling for Stoneman's head.  The fact is Stoneman is clearly the best GM the Angels have ever had and he was much, much better than he ever got credit for being.

[Scott34]

2009 was so much fun.

[HaloMagic]

I'm also hoping that Jerry has learned from his first two years on the job. I think he still has promise as a GM - his ideas are good, but they just don't seem to work out well.

Good ideas that don't work are what we call bad ideas.

[Angel Oracle]

To me, the one decision of Dipoto's that was a true head scratcher was rushing to sign Blanton. If he had waited until February and then signed him, it might have only taken say 2 years/$6 million total to get it done.

[YouthofToday]

Was the team's success in the aughts due to the organization being "smart" or the rest of the AL being utterly incompetent?

I would say it's the latter.

I wouldn't say the club is the stupidest in baseball -- they are, however, surely the most reactionary, reckless club. This is due to incompetent ownership decision making and vision.

[Mudville]

If the rest of the AL was incompetent then Billy Beane was an incompetent GM and is just lucky now. I think AJ would have a stroke trying to force that across his keyboard.

 

It all happens in waves in terms of teams rising and falling. Even the Yankees are in trouble now and they have the same GM as they have had for a decade. The Angels had a stockpile of talent due to over a decade of poor seasons before 2002 and that talent pool ran it's course. The free agent acquisitions in 2004 helped solidify and already good roster instead of now trying to force a weak roster into contention and trading away the few good prospects for a win now rental player.

 

Let's get back to Beane. All of the glorification of this guys is so not deserved. He pile drived a very competitive team by trading and releasing talent until he had multiple seasons of triple A talent with a dumpster dive player or two. From 2004-2011 they went to the playoffs once and got swept. So where is the brilliance there, he had 5 seasons in a row where the club was below .500?

 

Also, the A's make their coin off of revenue sharing and TV contracts but don't put a dime back into the stadium to keep the clubhouse from flooding with backed up toilet water. What kind of ownership does that? Do you think Moreno would stand for that?

 

I have little respect for Whiney World's griping about the team because it is (like many would spend their entire time complaining) without context of how baseball teams rise and fall. It is all knee jerk then they look at some other teams that rose and say what a smart organization they have and never look at how retched they were before.

[stevestevens]

good lord, people. embarrassed relative to sports and other teams. not embarrassed in a meaningful human being sort of way. jesus.

Why bring religion into this now? First grammar and now this. Stay on topic.

[stormngt]

We're on the same page here.

And to me, ever since it's been one mistake piled onto another.

 

I agree.

 

However, I wouldn't say Pujols and Hamilton were mistakes.  They just didn't work out as planned.  Almost everyone new Pujols would struggle late in the contract.  NO ONE thought he would drop immediately.  Same with Hamilton.  No one thought he would be this bad this quick.

 

It kind of seems like the Angels are cursed.  You make a big move to improve, yet your moves backfire!

[stormngt]

I agree with wallyworld in the sense that we didn't need another hitter nearly as much as we needed pitching.  The fact that Hamilton has struggled is just salt in the wound.

 

The problem is we couldn't get the pitching we needed (Grienke was way too expensive) and there wasn't better options so the Angels gambled and hoped improving our offense would compensate.  The gamble backfired.

 

The Angels should have (in hindsight): kept both Haren and Santana.  Both would have been better than Blanton and Hanson.  AND both contracts would be up now.

 

Or

 

Signed a different free agent pitcher other than Blanton.  Saunders for example.  

 

I am not sure we could have gotten a better pitcher for Waldan than Hanson.  Although keeping Waldan would have been better.

 

Or the Angels shouldn't have traded for Grienke, kept Segura, and traded Aybar for pitching.

[shellback]

objective evidence of the dissaray of this org is firing the coach of the area in which the team was very good in and retaining the coach of the area that the team sucked in.

what other org does shit like this?

the org may not be stupid, but it at least lacks direction and has poor planning.

[stormngt]

WallyWorld's question is perfectly valid. But the majority of replies to him is basically knee-jerk apologism.

 

As Lawrence just posted (actually supporting WW's question), the team has been reeling for four years, at least compared to 2004-09.

 

Its difficult to say when the bad decisions began. But the success of 2004-09 was pretty much based upon a combination of Stoneman's work, both in terms of player development and some savvy acquisitions, like Vlad before 2004. The success of the early Reagins years were largely in the wake of Stoneman's moves (of course Stoneman wasn't perfect; see "Matthews Jr, Gary").

 

But to reply to WW's question, I wouldn't say they are the stupiderist org in baseball, but they are not one of the smartest, and they may be in the bottom third or so in terms of "foWAR" (lol, tdawg). And I agree with you - payroll has to count, which is why the Athletics may be the smartest org in baseball, and Beane the highest gmWAR.

 

I'm curious what Dipoto would do without Arte's meddling. I'm hoping that keeping Dipoto means Arte gets that he ****ed up and is willing to take a step back and let Jerry give it a shot. I'm also hoping that Jerry has learned from his first two years on the job. I think he still has promise as a GM - his ideas are good, but they just don't seem to work out well.

 

I think the fact that Moreno kept both Dipoto and Scioscia is an indication that he knows he screwed up!

[shellback]

The problem is we couldn't get the pitching we needed (Grienke was way too expensive) and there wasn't better options so the Angels gambled and hoped improving our offense would compensate.  The gamble backfired.

 

The Angels should have (in hindsight): kept both Haren and Santana.  Both would have been better than Blanton and Hanson.  AND both contracts would be up now.

 

Or

 

Signed a different free agent pitcher other than Blanton.  Saunders for example.  

 

I am not sure we could have gotten a better pitcher for Waldan than Hanson.  Although keeping Waldan would have been better.

 

Or the Angels shouldn't have traded for Grienke, kept Segura, and traded Aybar for pitching.

 

maybe the plan was that good hitting beats good pitching?

oh boy.

[stormngt]

I guarantee some of the same folks defending Dipoto were calling for Stoneman's head.  The fact is Stoneman is clearly the best GM the Angels have ever had and he was much, much better than he ever got credit for being.

 

I have said it several times this year.  I regret calling for Stoneman to be fired.  I regret all the bad things I have said about him.

 

And for those who want Sosh Fired:  BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR.  YOU MIGHT GET THE NEXT BOBBY VALENTINE!