No news of personnel firings, but also no confirmations of retention

[Inside Pitch]

sure he can 

 

 

Yeah -- you're right and that's the scary part.

[Lou]

Yeah -- you're right and that's the scary part.

 

After all, it's his money, not ours 

[xboom28x]

So "the point" has now changed...,  little things like wholesale changes to improve the roster mean very little in the grand scheme of things...  Gotcha..    

 

The great part about most of your post is that it's impossible to argue something that's purely hypothetical and based on stuff like "thinking you're a winner".  So an Angels team that won 89 games the previous year didn't think they were winners because the coaching staff didn't tell them they were....  Sounds legit.   No doubt the Cleveland Indians could have retained their 2012 roster, signed Stuart Smalley to manage and gone beyond the WC.  

 

Meanwhile, back in reality-land.  The Angels need to improve their pitching staff. 

 

You and I disagree on the value of a manager with respect to the roster he is given.

 

Kazmir should be a prime example of a coaching staff that isn't working well with what it has.

[Inside Pitch]

You and I disagree on the value of a manager with respect to the roster he is given.

 

Kazmir should be a prime example of a coaching staff that isn't working well with what it has.

 

 

You are right,  I don't believe MLB players need the sort of pep talks typically given to little leaguers in need of help with their self esteem.  The theory that Kazmir validates your line of thinking might be easier to swallow if not for the fact that Scott Kazmir's best seasons as a pro came with Butcher as his pitching coach in TB.   Apparently, Mickey Callaway taught Scott Kazmir to throw 92 again in ST after topping out at 86 while with the Angels.  This wasn't a Dave Wallace transformation Boom, Kazmir was the same exact pitcher he had always been, the difference was he had his FB again.  He showed up day one of ST throwing harder -- coaching had ZERO to do with that.  Francona went on record as saying they didn't think it would carry over -- and then it did.  He referred to the situation as having "caught a break" in an article/interview at Ohio,com.  

Edited October 7, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[DMVol]

You are right,  I don't believe MLB players need the sort of pep talks typically given to little leaguers in need of help with their self esteem.  The theory that Kazmir validates your line of thinking might be easier to swallow if not for the fact that Scott Kazmir's best seasons as a pro came with Butcher as his pitching coach in TB.   Apparently, Mickey Callaway taught Scott Kazmir to throw 92 again in ST after topping out at 86 while with the Angels.  This wasn't a Dave Wallace transformation Boom, Kazmir was the same exact pitcher he had always been, the difference was he had his FB again.  He showed up day one of ST throwing harder -- coaching had ZERO to do with that.  Francona went on record as saying they didn't think it would carry over -- and then it did.  He referred to the situation as having "caught a break" in an article/interview at Ohio,com.  

And it's hard not to wonder where that extra MPH came from.....remember most of the Biogenesis guys tested clean....the Biogenesis evidence got them, not MLB testing...I hope Kazmir is clean but one does wonder......

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think the odds of him being traded, are very slim. I think the Dodgers are the only team that might be interested in trading for him, but I still think the odds of him being traded to the Dodgers are very slim. Of course it's not like trading players, he has to agree to be traded. He would probably rather stay at home, get paid, and wait for the right situation to get back into managing.

Whoa whoa whoa.....were talking about sosh. Lets not be too quick to call anything slim.

[Mark68]

In Cleveland's case, I think Francona certainly had a nonzero effect on their turnaround. You could also say that the additions of Swisher, Bourn, Kazmir, and Giambi (although his was more of a behind-the-scenes presence) were also key. Add to that Jimenez' second half turnaround (in a contract year, no less) and the continuing maturity of a good young core of players (Santana, Kipnis, Brantley) all came together in a perfect storm. I doubt this was a fluke, because you've got some of the core players now entering their prime.

 

I think Francona's strength is his ability to blend youngsters and veterans and get them all believing in themselves and their abilities. This was the case his first few years in Boston, as well.

[Angel Oracle]

And at that, Francona >>>>>>> Scioscia.

Scioscia is definitely NOT the best manager for younger players, very little patience exhibited with them.

2002 featured mostly older players and 2 rookies in Lackey and Donnelly with K-Rod not with the team until mid-September.

[stormngt]

How about a massive improvement in pitching?  

 

The 2012 Indians had Derek Lowe 5.52 ERA, Josh Tomlin 6.36 ERA, Jeanmar Gomez 5.96 ERA combine to make 56 starts, another 31 were made by Ulbaldo Jimenez who posted an ERA of 5.40.   They basically had four Joe Blanton's in their rotation in 2012..   All told they had 7 different pitchers start at least 12 games, of those 7 only 1 of them managed an ERA+ better than 79, Zach McAllister at 4.24...  This year they had ONE guy with an ERA over 3,85 -- Scott Kazmir at 4.04 which translated into a ERA+ of 93. 

 

Comaraderie and persona?  When the team's ERA+ goes from 81 to 99, camaraderie  and persona improves a great deal.   Look no further than how different the Angels looked when they yanked Hanson and Blanton from the rotation.

 

 

We basically had fourof those type of pitchers:  Blanton, Hanson, Williams, and the dogs who pitched in Weaver's spot!

[Stradling]

And at that, Francona >>>>>>> Scioscia.

Scioscia is definitely NOT the best manager for younger players, very little patience exhibited with them.

2002 featured mostly older players and 2 rookies in Lackey and Donnelly with K-Rod not with the team until mid-September.

And yet the team played better when the younger guys got more playing time.

[Stradling]

The only way they will improve the pitching is to stop bringing in position players.

The OF/DH spots are already clogged up.

This HAS to be the off-season of adding ZERO position players.

Can Arte actually refrain himself this time from ANY big money contracts to aging position players?

Even with Pujols' disappearance and Hamilton needing 4 months to get started, the team still finished only .003 from having the third best OPS in the AL in 2013.

Pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching!!!!

AO, I specifically remember two years ago, you being on the exact opposite side of all this. You complained about Arte not spending money. You questioned his commitment to winning. Arte tries to win, period. He knows the needs of this team every bit as much as you and I. He is going to try to let that happen. He has spent bad money two off seasons in a row, get over it. Hamilton, as you have pointed out countless times, started to perform the last two months so maybe there is some hope. You just seem to vent in the wrong direction so often it's laughable.

[Glen]

AO, I specifically remember two years ago, you being on the exact opposite side of all this. You complained about Arte not spending money. You questioned his commitment to winning. Arte tries to win, period. He knows the needs of this team every bit as much as you and I. He is going to try to let that happen. He has spent bad money two off seasons in a row, get over it. Hamilton, as you have pointed out countless times, started to perform the last two months so maybe there is some hope. You just seem to vent in the wrong direction so often it's laughable.

 

 

Remember "nobody signed beyond 2013, open the wallet, Arte!"?

[xboom28x]

Remember "stop signing high schoolers?"

 

...enter Mike Trout

[Angel Oracle]

Remember the saying, "Don't go too overboard the other direction to compensate"?

Also, I never said to totally stop drafting HS players, just stop drafting them as the by far majority of your draft selections, as Bane did.   A balance between HS and college drafted players isn't a bad thing at all.   And of course, if the best available player by far is a HS player, then draft him.    Same goes for the 2014 draft, if the best available pitcher at overall pick #15 is by far a HS pitcher, then take him.    

 

 

I never said to go CRAZY on spending, just that the need for hitting was there in 2011 and that signing to ONE big contract a TRULY great hitter wouldn't hurt Arte.  

Unfortunately, the two big hitting acquisitions, aside from 4 months for Pujols in 2012 and 2 months for Hamilton in 2013, have SUCKED. 

When they STOP sucking for longgggg stretches (and Hamilton stopped doing so from August on), then maybe they will supply something resembling what their contracts state they should supply! 

 

Also, Arte knew after 2012 that 1) Trout was going to be special and 2) Hamilton was too up and down to get that kind of money.

He also should have known, if he was so against the luxury tax, that Hamilton AND tying up Trout long term would put him over for the next few years. 
  

Edited October 8, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

The worry about Arte not going over the luxury tax threshold is silly.

[Stradling]

Oh and I do remember us NEEDING a left handed power bat.

[mtangelsfan]

Meh, it's not like most of us haven't been wrong on this site mulitple times.  Give AO a break.

[Angel Oracle]

The worry about Arte not going over the luxury tax threshold is silly.

I would agree, but why though are there rumors swirling that he won't go over?

Only if he does go over to add the right pitching for 2014 and beyond, without giving up too many players and draft picks, will I then rest easier.

 

And while a lefty bat was needed, the jury is still out on Hamilton.

Two months of solid hitting is a start, but if he regresses the first couple of months in 2014, then the critiques will be back and warrented that an ineffectual lefty bat was brought in.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[ten ocho recon scout]

Meh, it's not like most of us haven't been wrong on this site mulitple times. Give AO a break.

+1

The majority of this site bought a pujols jersey for christmas 2012. A huge chunk werebstoked about wilson the same year, then wrote him off coming in to this year. A lot wanted carl crawford etc.

Were all knuckleheads on here at one time or another.