Obamacare/Trumpcare Horror Stories

[Bruce Nye]

It would have been nice if Obama provided healthcare for those who didn't have it without f'ing up the healthcare plans of those who already had it.

  Taylor, you must have missed the statement Harry Reid made a couple months back when he said the goal all along was to create a single payer system.  The government wants to control health care.

[HaloMagic]

That wasn't the quote at all Bruce. Nice try, though.

[Bruce Nye]

That wasn't the quote at all Bruce. Nice try, though.

 

 

 

The quote in Las Vegas?  Yes, it was.

 

What you're referring to is his handlers requesting to explain what he meant.  The quote was 100% accurate.

[Bruce Nye]

Here's the link.  (Sorry the - Where's the link - fans  would want to know.

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/10/sen-harry-reid-obamacare-absolutely-a-step-toward-a-single-payer-system/

[Taylor]

Forbes? That conservative rag!

[HaloMagic]

My bad. I thought you were exposing that nonsense that everyone's goal was single payer. That is not true. But Harry Reid, and I assume some others were. Apologies.

[red321]

The original goal for many was single payer, knowing that was a non-starter folks on the left started with public option as a compromise...which turned out to be unacceptable to many so they fell back to the individual mandate/healthcare proposals from the heritage foundation and was implemented by the eventual 2012 Republican nominee in Massachusettes...you know...what is now socialism and nothing short of the fall of American civilization...Obamacare.

[mtangelsfan]

I think the idea for me and many is that Obamacare was created with the knowledge that while it doesn't create a single payer system, it will basically force one in over time.  

[Taylor]

Obamacare was created to lock in more Dem votes.

[saangels]

Obamacare was created to lock in more Dem votes.

Huh?

[red321]

Obamacare was created to lock in more Dem votes.

 

If you mean...by helping provide affordable health insurance to tens of millions of uncovered, an undercovered, people...you are absolutely correct. People tend to vote for the party that does a good job, and doesn't decide to burn everything to the ground in an epic temper tantrum.

[HaloMagic]

Obamacare was created to lock in more Dem votes.

LOL. That is pretty counter to the Repcon strategy the last 6 years of "say things so ridiculous you can't get votes."

[mtangelsfan]

If you mean...by helping provide affordable health insurance to tens of millions of uncovered, an undercovered, people...you are absolutely correct. People tend to vote for the party that does a good job, and doesn't decide to burn everything to the ground in an epic temper tantrum.

 

Both sides have let this happen.  Reps have just done a better job of looking more inept doing it.

 

For me, I'd just prefer a fix that helped people who couldn't get healthcare without affecting those of us who like ours just fine and without forcing people who don't want it yet to have it.

[red321]

Both sides have let this happen.  Reps have just done a better job of looking more inept doing it.

 

For me, I'd just prefer a fix that helped people who couldn't get healthcare without affecting those of us who like ours just fine and without forcing people who don't want it yet to have it.

 

Sorry MT, can't agree.

 

The Democrats have been pushing to have a conference for 6+months now, 18 times that offer has been rejected.

 

They've agreed on a Continuing Resolution at Sequester Levels, even less than the Paul Ryan Budget that the Republicans wanted.

 

They are being asked to dismantle the signature accomplishment of the party, for 6 weeks of a CR, at levels even the Republicans didn't dream of asking for. What happens in 6 weeks? They are forced to dismantle Medicare for another 6 weeks? Social Security for another 6 weeks after that?

 

The Republicans lost the last election. The Presidency, the Senate, and they lost the House vote by 1.5 million (gerrymandering baby!)...and because they know what they want is unpopular, and they can't get what they want using the normal legislative process, they've taken hostages. First it's the government shutdown and they've pretty much demanded that the Democrats institute Mitt Romney's economic agenda not to blow up the US and global economy. 

 

You don't see the Obama administration threatening to blow up the economy if they don't get gun legislation they want? Or immigration reform. One side is guilty of hostage negotiations at this point.

[Bruce Nye]

Let's don't forget the biggest thorns in the side of the non-Obamacare people are the following:

 

*  It was sold as a cost-neutral or maybe even cost saving law.

 

* The single biggest law that is more far-reaching than any other law was never read, nor understood by those in favor of it.

 

* It was sold as a law that would be argued day and night on C-SPAN for us all to see.

 

*It was sold as a law that would allow people to keep their existing primary care doctor.

 

And now we are supposed to follow the Clinton plan - "Fund it and then fix it."  Nope, no one I know has faith that once funded it will be discussed and hashed out for existing problems.  If it is funded, it will move forward as the Libs wanted - single payer system with billions of costs thrown on top of the taxpaying public so that 30 million (I think that's the number) can get health care.  Medicare coverage is now being cut, whole costs go up.  A couple (my age) now find that it will cost them close to $700 more per month.

[mtangelsfan]

Fair enough red.  I'm no fan of the republicans at all.  They have screwed up royally.  

 

Would you care to address the second part of my post though?

[nate]

Obamacare was created for one reason.  The physicians lobby cried hard to the Democrats and threw millions of dollars behind it.

 

Read it up and down, it is all to make doctors and pharma richer and insurance companies poorer.

[HaloMagic]

We should ignore laws we don't like because we don't think they will work.

[mtangelsfan]

That was quite the random post HM.  

[HaloMagic]

Nope. Not random. Some don't want to fund the law because they think it won't work. And they want to put our economy in even more risk to get their way. They don't want to use the legislative process to get it off the books. Because they can't.

Edited October 7, 2013 by HaloMagic

[Vegas Halo Fan]

If you can't win the election, hijack the process and punish others until you get your way.

[mtangelsfan]

That isn't ignoring the law.  Also, I don't believe the legislative process was even followed to pass it.  A majority of congress hadn't even read the law before voting on it.  I would also argue that that your statement about putting the economy in more risk is debatable.

[HaloMagic]

Reading is not a required step in the legislative process. Voting is. They already voted. Maybe they should vote on Obamacare again.

[Bruce Nye]

The U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate are the two bodies that are mandated by the Constitution to create, review, amend, pass and repeal laws. The Constitution says that the House and Senate may make their own rules as to how they do this, and therefore they are not under the constraints of any federal law that governs how laws are passed and repealed. The Constitution also requires that any spending bills must begin in the House, and withholding funding of laws the House does not agree with is a longstanding tradition that is mirrored in the state legislative bodies as well. Withholding funding is just one of a myriad of ways the House can stop a law from going into effect.

What the U.S. House of Representatives is doing by withholding funding of the Obamacare provisions is one of the "checks and balances" of our government. They do not agree with the law, and it is their prerogative under the Constitution to withhold funding even though it was passed and signed into law, even though it was affirmed by the Supreme Court, even though Obama won the 2012 election, and even though they've voted to repeal it 39 times and each attempt failed in the Senate. In fact, the U.S. Senate is exercising its role in the "checks and balances" process by voting down the House continuing resolution.

[Taylor]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324492604579087044033601178.html