LA Times: Mike Trout, Angels not talking deal

[AngelsWin.com]

Outfielder's agent says there have been no discussions with the club about a long-term contract.

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[Deek]

"There is no financial incentive for the Angels to secure Trout to a long-term deal now. If they did, the average annual value of that contract, which could top $20 million, would immediately count toward the team's luxury-tax payroll. By waiting two years, Trout would not take up nearly as much luxury-tax payroll."

 

I did not know that... It sure makes the decision to kick the rock (or $20M+ boulder) down the road a bit more understandable...

[Angelsjunky]

I don't understand why they can't create a back-loaded contract, one that kicks in with big dollars in 2017 when Weaver and Wilson come off the books. Something like this:

 

2014: $5M

2015: $10M

2016: $15M

2017: $20M

2018+: $30M (free agency years)

 

That way Trout makes more money over the next four years than he would otherwise make, is still guaranteed a big contract for his free agency years, and the Angels lock him up before he hits free agency.

 

I suppose they could also wait until he's arbitration eligible so the difference won't be as extreme. Either way, what they don't want to do is wait until the end of the 2017 season and have Trout facing free agency.

[yk9001]

"There is no financial incentive for the Angels to secure Trout to a long-term deal now. If they did, the average annual value of that contract, which could top $20 million, would immediately count toward the team's luxury-tax payroll. By waiting two years, Trout would not take up nearly as much luxury-tax payroll."

 

I did not know that... It sure makes the decision to kick the rock (or $20M+ boulder) down the road a bit more understandable...

 

 

So all the stupid contract *do* have consequences.  And the "it's not my money" crowd will still continue to spout it.

[Mudville]

I believe the luxuary tax is based upon the average yearly value of the contract not the value of each individual year. So your scenario creates an average of $16 million per year. Better for the Angels to pay him that money at one year contracts until they clear cap room.

[Mudville]

Also, before everyone digs out their pitchforks and torches to storm the Angels office, it is not the off season when all of these negotiations begin to take form. Trout's agent is his own worst enemy right now by pushing an agenda that is still months away from the bagaining table. He is like the kid in the back seat asking every two minutes, "are we there yet?"

[mulwin444]

I believe the luxuary tax is based upon the average yearly value of the contract not the value of each individual year. So your scenario creates an average of $16 million per year. Better for the Angels to pay him that money at one year contracts until they clear cap room.

Pretty much this unless Arte is willing to bite the luxury tax bullet and lock up the best player in baseball right now

[nate]

I don't understand why they can't create a back-loaded contract, one that kicks in with big dollars in 2017 when Weaver and Wilson come off the books. Something like this:

 

2014: $5M

2015: $10M

2016: $15M

2017: $20M

2018+: $30M (free agency years)

 

That way Trout makes more money over the next four years than he would otherwise make, is still guaranteed a big contract for his free agency years, and the Angels lock him up before he hits free agency.

 

I suppose they could also wait until he's arbitration eligible so the difference won't be as extreme. Either way, what they don't want to do is wait until the end of the 2017 season and have Trout facing free agency.

 

Back loaded contracts don't matter when it comes to luxury tax.  Luxury tax goes by AAV.

[Mudville]

Pretty much this unless Arte is willing to bite the luxury tax bullet and lock up the best player in baseball right now

When you think about it, regardless of how many come off the books in two years there will be acquisitions that eat into payroll so waiting is not really going to change going over the cap or hitting that ceiling.

But economics say give Trout a sizeable raise this off-season to shut up Landis and the following season in his first arb season crack open the vault and make the multiyear contract and only look at one season over the cap.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Mudville

[Angel Oracle]

When you think about it, regardless of how many come off the books in two years there will be acquisitions that eat into payroll so waiting is not really going to change going over the cap or hitting that ceiling.

But economics say give Trout a sizeable raise this off-season to shut up Landis and the following season in his first arb season crack open the vault and make the multiyear contract and only look at one season over the cap.

I'm happy with this.

No more piddling raises!

[WallyWorld]

pretty sure I'm just paranoid and a pessimist at heart, but I have a bad feeling about Trout staying here long term.

[gotbeer]

Angels should be at minimum trying to lock him up to a 6 year contract buying out 2 years of FA'cy.  With 1 year of non arbitration, and 3 years of arbitration, it might look like $5/$12/$16/$20 which would be close to records for arbitration years.  Year 1 and 2 of FA'cy could be $25 and $30.  Which would be a total of $108 million.  And an AAV of $18 million.  

 

If Arte is thinking Competitive Balance Tax is over $18 million, which the hit year 17.5% for year 1, 30% year 2, 40% year 3, 50% in year 4, or $3.15 million, $5.4 million, $7.2 million, and $9 million, is going to hurt.  Then maybe Arte doesn't have the cash he makes it out to be, and is playing a high stakes poker bluff with the CoA.  

 

This doesn't make any sense if the Angels sit on their hands again and not even negotiate a deal.  Hopefully it's just season talk, and it'll ramp up in the offseason.  

[WallyWorld]

that they haven't talked long term deal yet, isn't a big deal.  most teams typically don't handle that sort of business in season.  If a couple months from now I hear they still haven't started negotiating, then I will be very concerned.

[James]

This article said virtually nothing. Arte has been willing to pony up big money, I trust that he will do this with Trout as well. 

[tomsred]

I don't see any reason to discuss contract with Trout until the post season is underway.  Who knows, Dipoto and his team may not even be the ones discussing it if Arte makes changes to the front office.

[stormngt]

"There is no financial incentive for the Angels to secure Trout to a long-term deal now. If they did, the average annual value of that contract, which could top $20 million, would immediately count toward the team's luxury-tax payroll. By waiting two years, Trout would not take up nearly as much luxury-tax payroll."

 

I did not know that... It sure makes the decision to kick the rock (or $20M+ boulder) down the road a bit more understandable...

very simple solution.

 

Offer Mike Trout a 200 million 30 year contract with an opt out clause for him after ten years.  The average counting toward salary cap would be around 7 million a year.  The contract would be front heavy where the last 20 years of the contract he would make only the minimum.  That would be approximately 12 million.  Trout would make 190 million the first 10 years and would obviously opt out of the cotnract after 10 years.

[stormngt]

Also, before everyone digs out their pitchforks and torches to storm the Angels office, it is not the off season when all of these negotiations begin to take form. Trout's agent is his own worst enemy right now by pushing an agenda that is still months away from the bagaining table. He is like the kid in the back seat asking every two minutes, "are we there yet?"

I for one would advocate storming the front office with pitchforks if there isn't any extension this year.  This is the last year the Angels have real leverage with Trout.  That leverage could be used on the negotiating table.  However, that incentive will be gone once he begins to make 10+ million with arbritration.

[AZMike]

Also, before everyone digs out their pitchforks and torches to storm the Angels office, it is not the off season when all of these negotiations begin to take form. Trout's agent is his own worst enemy right now by pushing an agenda that is still months away from the bagaining table. He is like the kid in the back seat asking every two minutes, "are we there yet?"

 

Trout's Agent is worried he's going to be fired and replaced by some other Agent before he gets commission on Trout's big money contracts.

 

 

I don't understand why they can't create a back-loaded contract, one that kicks in with big dollars in 2017 when Weaver and Wilson come off the books. Something like this:

 

2014: $5M

2015: $10M

2016: $15M

2017: $20M

2018+: $30M (free agency years)

 

That way Trout makes more money over the next four years than he would otherwise make, is still guaranteed a big contract for his free agency years, and the Angels lock him up before he hits free agency.

 

I suppose they could also wait until he's arbitration eligible so the difference won't be as extreme. Either way, what they don't want to do is wait until the end of the 2017 season and have Trout facing free agency.

As was mentioned by some others, luxury tax is based on the average annual value of contracts of players on the team. Cash compensation paid in trades also counts against the luuxry tax. That means 2/3rds of Vernon Wells' salary coutns against the Angels for luxury tax purposes. The Angels are actually *just* under the tax cutoff.

 

Since there are serious penalties for going over multiple consecutive years, what will likely happen is they will sign Trout to a long contract after the 2014 season. That's when Vernon Wells money goes off the books. And in that case, they'd actually be better off signing him to a very long term (like 15 years) deal, with a huge lump sum paid in year one. Average annual value would be low but a huge payoff up front (like $40m or more )  would be hard to refuse compared to arbitration. 

[VariousCrap]

How much of a raise do you think the Angels should give Trout this offseason???

[SoWhat]

TRADE TRADE TRADE

[Brandon]

very simple solution.

Offer Mike Trout a 200 million 30 year contract with an opt out clause for him after ten years. The average counting toward salary cap would be around 7 million a year. The contract would be front heavy where the last 20 years of the contract he would make only the minimum. That would be approximately 12 million. Trout would make 190 million the first 10 years and would obviously opt out of the cotnract after 10 years.

A 30 year contract, I've seen it all.

[YouthofToday]

So all the stupid contract *do* have consequences. And the "it's not my money" crowd will still continue to spout it.

Indeed.

The Angels need to lock Trout up now. The closer he gets to free agency I really feel the less likely he signs a long-term deal to stay. the club.

[yk9001]

A 30 year contract, I've seen it all.

 

Bobby Bonilla likes it.

[Angelsjunky]

To the three or four folks who told me that luxury tax is based upon average annual salary, thanks (although I did hear it the first time!).

 

If the Angels aren't able to keep Trout long-term because of the Wells, Pujols, and Hamilton contracts, then I would seriously consider revoking my fan card. That would be so monumentally bad that it might have to go back to the Babe Ruth sale to the Yankees to find comparable **** up. That said, I don't expect that to happen. Worst case scenario and Arte just has to out-bid everyone else - and, if Trout is as good as he is now in four years - he will.

 

But I don't expect it to come to that. We should all keep in mind that Trout is under club control for four more years. A lot can happen in that time. It sounds like the best idea is as AZMike said - give him a substantial raise for 2014, then work out a long-term deal next off-season after Wells comes off the books. Unless Trout hits .400 in 2014, his long-term contract value won't be any higher a year from now that is now. He's going to get a truck-load of cash no matter what.

[Angel Oracle]

Plus if as anticipated Kendrick is traded within the next year to make room for Kendrick, that's another $9 million/season freed from the payroll after 2014 to make it $23 million freed from Wells' and Kendrick's AAV.

Plus Trumbo could eventually be dealt as well, with the backlog of DH types.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Angel Oracle