KOLE CALHOUN

[mulwin444]

Calhoun needs everyday PAs to see if he is an everyday corner OF.

Shuck is a 4th OF at best. He is really a replacement level OF. 94 wRC+, 0.1 WAR and can't play a league average CF.

Why he is leading off is beyond my comprehension.

Grit-factor is through the roof.  Not to mention our best OBP guys (Trout and Calhoun) are also the best run-producers.  Who else can lead off?

 

Shuck (.326 OBP), Aybar (.304 OBP), Hamilton (.298 OBP), Trumbo (.291 OBP), Conger (.317 OBP), Geen (.303 OBP), and Romine (.310 OBP) were all in the line-up today.  Fact is, very little options.

[YouthofToday]

I would bat Calhoun #1 and Green #2. They need all the PAs they can get for the front office to properly evaluate them. That should be the priority right now. Evaluation for 2014.

[YouthofToday]

Guby said Shuck could win the ROY.

Mathis should win the NL Cy Young for catching Fernandez.

[Inside Pitch]

You forget to mention that Calhoun didn't start 8 of those games and came into the game as late inning defensive replacement.

Yeah Shuck had his best OPS month in august but of you course you don't bring up his .500 ops in september and the fact that Calhoun is almost .100 ops point higher since August 1st.

 

 

Why would I bring up his OPS in a weeks worth of games?   Keep trying.  I didn't bring up that Cowgill is the GM's guy either -- it has nothing to do with Calhoun and his performance.

 

The 20 or so at bat difference makes it clear you were guilty of attempting to press on with a boring agenda.  I'm all for calling a manager out for shit, but you calling it outrageous was the typical agenda driven tripe that derails threads.

 

I'd definitely like to see Calhoun get all the PT, but he's not actually been shorted.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

Calhoun needs everyday PAs to see if he is an everyday corner OF.

Shuck is a 4th OF at best. He is really a replacement level OF. 94 wRC+, 0.1 WAR and can't play a league average CF.

Why he is leading off is beyond my comprehension.

 

 

Good call...  Shuck's shown what he is,  Let's find out of Calhoun can be a poor man's Brian Downing.

[tennischmp]

 

You're soo eager to pop off you didn't even bother to look at all of what you posted...   Fact is he's been in 34 of the 36 games since August 1st.  Same exact number of games as JB Shuck...You know the guy thats playing every day while Calhoun seemingly rots?

  

 

Shuck has had about 20 more at bats though and while that may seem a bit damning, you may want to compare their OPS in August.   Shuck actually had his best month in August.

 

I just checked Shuck's OPS since August 1st and it's .702. I must be missing something here....

[Jay]

Somebody with computer skillz needs to make a picture with the logo from the movie "The Expendables" and have Trumbo, Kendrick, and Bourjos on it.

don't forget Dipoto

[Jay]

Guby said Shuck could win the ROY.

Guby meant to say, Shuck should be benched.

[Angel Oracle]

Shuck is a rock solid 4th OF, and that should be his spot in 2014 and beyond.

He is the 2010s version of Orlando Palmeiro, not a bad comp at all.

[YouthofToday]

He is not a rock solid 4th OF. He is more like a fringy 5th OF.

[Inside Pitch]

I just checked Shuck's OPS since August 1st and it's .702. I must be missing something here....

 

Well, that's cause reading is fundamental.  His OPS "IN" August was .750.  He wasn't hurting the team.   He shouldn't be starting if both Calhoun and PB are healthy, but he's not the complete garbage some try to make him out to be.

 

He is not a rock solid 4th OF. He is more like a fringy 5th OF.

 

Given he's posted a better OPS than several starters inclding Michael Bourne(12 Mil),  Ichiro Suzuki (6.5M), and Nick Markakis (15 MIl).  He's a solid enough 4th OFer...   BTW, Josh Reddick .Mike Morse, David Murphy, Melky Cabrera, Lorezo Cain are all starters or primary OFers with lower OPS and OPS+ figures than Shuck.   I'm not a Shuck fan, but you're trying real hard to paint him out to be worse than he is.   

 

Trade Trumbo, keep Calhoun,   Shuck can back them up and we can all wait for Borenstein/Grichuk to make their way up.   Lots of youth and different abilities being brought to the table with all those guys.

.

[rageous]

Well, that's cause reading is fundamental.  His OPS "IN" August was .750.  He wasn't hurting the team.   He shouldn't be starting if both Calhoun and PB are healthy, but he's not the complete garbage some try to make him out to be.

 

 

Given he's posted a better OPS than several starters inclding Michael Bourne(12 Mil),  Ichiro Suzuki (6.5M), and Nick Markakis (15 MIl).  He's a solid enough 4th OFer...   BTW, Josh Reddick .Mike Morse, David Murphy, Melky Cabrera, Lorezo Cain are all starters or primary OFers with lower OPS and OPS+ figures than Shuck.   I'm not a Shuck fan, but you're trying real hard to paint him out to be worse than he is.   

 

Trade Trumbo, keep Calhoun,   Shuck can back them up and we can all wait for Borenstein/Grichuk to make their way up.   Lots of youth and different abilities being brought to the table with all those guys.

.

He has produced 0.1 WAR in 2/3 of a season of regular playing time.

That's called not producing and getting a similar production to a Joe Schmoe from AAA.

[Troll Daddy]

Calhoun is a keeper

[tennischmp]

Well, that's cause reading is fundamental.  His OPS "IN" August was .750.  He wasn't hurting the team.   He shouldn't be starting if both Calhoun and PB are healthy, but he's not the complete garbage some try to make him out to be.

Changing the argument I see. This discussion all started when you took offense to someone stated that it is laughable for Calhoun to be platooning with Cowgill while Shuck plays every day. And the more we look at the stats the more laughable it gets. No one is calling Shuck complete garbage but Calhoun and his .847 OPS since Aug 1, his .826 OPS in August and his .828 for the season, should be starting everyday and Shuck and Cowgill should be platooned.

[Inside Pitch]

Changing the argument I see. This discussion all started when you took offense to someone stated that it is laughable for Calhoun to be platooning with Cowgill while Shuck plays every day. And the more we look at the stats the more laughable it gets. No one is calling Shuck complete garbage but Calhoun and his .847 OPS since Aug 1, his .826 OPS in August and his .828 for the season, should be starting everyday and Shuck and Cowgill should be platooned.

 

Look, you not being able to decipher what I said is on you.   I hardly took offense to anything that's been said, the amateur shrink routine is a weak debating tactic as well.  Since you're either incapable of actually responding to whats been said or I didn't make myself clear enough in the other posts, I'll say it again... I felt calling Shuck's play time outrageous rang hollow when you consider Calhoun has been getting nearly identical play time..    

 

It's that simple. 

 

I'm hardly a Shuck fan IMO he's nothing more than a 4th OFer/replacement level player.   The Cowgill situation I agree is stupid, but I'm guessing the GM that saw fit to trade for him and recalled him before he did Calhoun wants to see him get some at bats.   

[Inside Pitch]

He has produced 0.1 WAR in 2/3 of a season of regular playing time.

That's called not producing and getting a similar production to a Joe Schmoe from AAA.

 

Awesome, we agree on what Shuck is.    Did we ever disagree on that or did you invent an argument?

Edited September 9, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Chuck]

Calhoun needs everyday PAs to see if he is an everyday corner OF.

Shuck is a 4th OF at best. He is really a replacement level OF. 94 wRC+, 0.1 WAR and can't play a league average CF.

Why he is leading off is beyond my comprehension.

 

Shuck is the new Orlando Palmeiro. Scioscia loves these types! I'm surprised we haven't seen Shuck hitting third yet. 

[tj_]

OP was much better than Shuck. Shuck is more of a Davanon/Eric Owens type IMO.

Edited September 9, 2013 by tj_

[Angel Oracle]

Shuck is the new Orlando Palmeiro. Scioscia loves these types! I'm surprised we haven't seen Shuck hitting third yet. 

 

Nothing wrong with being that, but there is with starting him almost every game in the long run.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[tennischmp]

I felt calling Shuck's play time outrageous rang hollow when you consider Calhoun has been getting nearly identical play time..    

 

It's that simple.

But it's not that simple. Shuck should not be getting more AB's that Calhoun. Calhoun should be playing everyday and Cowgill should be taking AB's away from Shuck and not Calhoun.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

I like calhoun. Hes one of the few young guys who I rhink has a future as a starter. Green still intrigues me too, hoping there's something beane and dipoto both see in him.

I agree with IP AND YOT on shuck. I thinks he's been a decent bandaid. He hasn't hurt the team (but should not be leading off). I don't see him being in rhe show too long though. I think he's another willits type.

Not to derail the thread, but someone above mentioned grichuck. Whats the consensus on him?

[Coachbulldog]

I hope that Calhoun's performance against a lefty last night will convince Scioscia that he needs to play every day and not be part of a platoon. Angels don't really know what they have in Calhoun yet and the only way to find out is play him every day between now and the end of the season. 

[eaterfan]

OP was much better than Shuck. Shuck is more of a Davanon/Eric Owens type IMO.

 

Was OP better than Shuck? I haven't really looked at the numbers but remember that it was a much more offensive era when OP played.

[Mudville]

I hope that Calhoun's performance against a lefty last night will convince Scioscia that he needs to play every day and not be part of a platoon. Angels don't really know what they have in Calhoun yet and the only way to find out is play him every day between now and the end of the season.

Is there some real reason Calhoun must play every game in these throw away spoiler games? If you think about it you all areonly arguing about your entertainment value over evaluating players worth. If it is so readily apearant that Calhoun is the better player, don't you think the Angels already knew this?

This year these games are not about winning. It is about getting a better picture of who you have on the 40 man can do. That does not mean keep playing the best of those that you already know what they can do at this level.

Calhoun doesn't need any more evaluation time.

[rageous]

Is there some real reason Calhoun must play every game in these throw away spoiler games? If you think about it you all areonly arguing about your entertainment value over evaluating players worth. If it is so readily apearant that Calhoun is the better player, don't you think the Angels already knew this?

This year these games are not about winning. It is about getting a better picture of who you have on the 40 man can do. That does not mean keep playing the best of those that you already know what they can do at this level.

Calhoun doesn't need any more evaluation time.

Are you that dense to think that you can't truly evaluate major league talent without performing at the major league level.

No matter how well they performed at all minor league levels, there are numerous instances of players failing once they get up to the big club.