Now is the time to relieve Scioscia of his duties

[70runner]

Gentlemen, I have gone though and removed a lot of posts that never should have happened. Let's get back to bitching about the season and Scioscia like we always do.

 

Well, damn, this was getting good

[stormngt]

Isn't it possible that Scioscia has lost the desire that he had a decade back?

There is a reason that not many MLB managers have lasted more than 14 years with the same team.

Since 1950, you might be able to count them on two hands.

This is a multi tiered attack to rebuild this org, but an important tier to fix nonetheless.

 

 

That is a distinct possibility.  That is also why I believe his contract has saved him.  Personally I think it would be a mistake to let him go.  We would have to pay 25 million and I don't think the greatest manager on earth could take this team to the playoffs.  The bullpen has sucked for four years now!  The starting pitching 3-5 is a joke.  The high priced talent doesn't perform.  None of that is Scioscia's fault and I don't think anyone cold win with that.

 

Yes it is possible that Scioscia has lost his drive and connection to the team.  Then again you shouldn't throw 25 million down the drain on a possibility.  It should be  a definite improvement if you do that.

[stormngt]

Knee jerk? LOL it's been 4 years since we've made the playoffs, and this current team is basically the laughing stock of baseball considering the payroll and how terrible they are on the field. The players have changed over the last 4 years, the GM has changed in the last 4 years, so has the hitting coach...there is one constant in our failures the last 4 years...Mike Scioscia

 

Under performance based on payroll is a reflection of the GM.  He is the one who negotiated and agreed to those contracts.

 

Money lost because of GMJ, Kazmir, Wells, and now Pujols and Hamilton all fall on the GM

 

Money lost because of Abreu I would blame Scioscia because he should have platooned him and not let his contract option vest.

[austin724]

I personally pin this stinker of a season on Dipoto. This guy needs to pull his head out of his a** and start making the right moves.

[stormngt]

The manager is usually the first person that loses his job. Scioscia should lose his job. Dipoto should be on the hot seat soon (if he already isn't), and the players definitely deserve a lot of the blame too.

 

Agreed!  And Scioscia probably would lose his job if he wasn't guaranteed for five more years.

 

 

I am curious, let's say Scioscia is fired.  The Angels buy out 18 million (they negotiate a level below his contract so Scioscia would be freed to work elsewhere).  We hire a new manager at lets say 10 million (after all you wannabe owners playing with monopoly money will go after the best and that will cost money) so the Angels pay Sosh 18 million not to manage and a new manager 10 million to manage.  AND THE TEAM COMES IN 3RD AGAIN!  How would you feel?

 

To solve the problem people we have to diagnose the problem.  I do not believe Scioscia is the problem with 3 of the last 4 years.  I do blame him for the slow start last year.

[Angel Oracle]

If, if, Maddon could be lured away from Tampa, then yes I would love to see him and his pitching coach Jim Hickey come here.

Yes, TB has never made the WS.   They also have been perennial contenders since 2008, and have a payroll about 40% of what the Halos have.

And, Maddon was a career Halos coach until leving for TB.   He no doubt still has good memories of his time in this org, and would maybe translate that pride onto the players. 

[Homebrewer]

Agreed!  And Scioscia probably would lose his job if he wasn't guaranteed for five more years.

 

 

I am curious, let's say Scioscia is fired.  The Angels buy out 18 million (they negotiate a level below his contract so Scioscia would be freed to work elsewhere).  We hire a new manager at lets say 10 million (after all you wannabe owners playing with monopoly money will go after the best and that will cost money) so the Angels pay Sosh 18 million not to manage and a new manager 10 million to manage.  AND THE TEAM COMES IN 3RD AGAIN!  How would you feel?

 

To solve the problem people we have to diagnose the problem.  I do not believe Scioscia is the problem with 3 of the last 4 years.  I do blame him for the slow start last year.

I would call it the best big check Arte has written in 4 or 5 years.

[Vladfan]

If, if, Maddon could be lured away from Tampa, then yes I would love to see him and his pitching coach Jim Hickey come here.

Yes, TB has never made the WS. They also have been perennial contenders since 2008, and have a payroll about 40% of what the Halos have.

And, Maddon was a career Halos coach until leving for TB. He no doubt still has good memories of his time in this org, and would maybe translate that pride onto the players.

TB made it in 2008

[Brandon]

The Angels haven't won anything in 4 years.

Neither has a lot of teams.

[Lifetime]

Lifetime: we would still be making tons of errors and and having terrible approaches at the plate even if Hamilton and Pujols were hitting and Blanton wasn't signed. I'm willing to make a bet that if there is a change in manager next year, we make the post season.

Scioscia doesn't have to keep putting Blanton out there. How long did that take for him to figure out? A .250 hitter in the 3 spot all year? Very questionable bullpen decisions almost every other night. I'd love it if we won under Scioscia but I don't see it happening

possibly, but again I think a lot of the errors/mistakes/blunders are due to players pressing and "overplaying" if you will. Trying to do too much to compensate for the lack of pitching for example. If those players, Hamilton and Pujols, were hitting and a pitcher reasonably better than Blanton were signed, this team would be in a much different position. The mistakes et al are not the result of poor management or lack of preparedness. They are executional mistakes/lapses for which the onus lies with the players.

 

Scioscia does have to keep putting Blanton out there. He doesn't have quality substitutes for him. Everyone was crying for Williams to get in the rotation and that has not gone well. Then we have Richards who has shown some promise but has been terribly inconsistent. The point is, particularly with the various injuries we have had to our staff, there are a lot of options for Scioscia. A manager is going to give a veteran pitcher, who has always been a starter, a chance to see if he can get back to his norms (which weren't that good to begin with. He had a couple moments so he got more time. Now, he's in the pen and we'll give another one of our not that good pitchers a chance to see if he can do a little bit better and to see if Blanton can be serviceable out of the pen.

[tomsred]

of course this has been beaten to death by me, among others. i think the best time to get rid of the entire on the field staff will be after the season is over.

not so much for bonehead strategy decisions and useless pitching coach, but to end the obvious conflict between DP and Scioscia.

these guys have conflicting philosophys on how to win baseball games. as long as both of them are in place, we can expect more of the same.

we have seen how well sciosia's boy worked out as GM. perhaps its time to see how DP's man as field manager will work out.

it would have to be better than what we're seeing now.

So throw out the guy who tried has tried to deal with a bunch of bone headed moves, and keep the guy who made the bone headed moves so he can continue to make more of them.  Makes sense!

[shellback]

So throw out the guy who tried has tried to deal with a bunch of bone headed moves, and keep the guy who made the bone headed moves so he can continue to make more of them.  Makes sense!

respectfully, you misinterpreted this totally. try rereading the post slowly.

[Stradling]

This might be the worst time to get rid of Mike. This season is over, we can all agree with that. So, what is the point of getting rid of him now? I am convinced that Mike will be re-assigned in the off-season and it is up to him to accept that role. If he doesn't then he will resign and Arte won't have to pay him all of that money. What would really be the point of letting him go now? I have been called a Scioscia Apologist, but anyone that has been following this board or pay attention to what I have said the last few months know that I am in favor of replacing him in the off-season. That being said, this isn't all on Mike, as a matter of opinion it is so much more on the players and the health of some players than it is on Mike. I would actually probably put about 10% of the blame on Mike, 20% on Dipoto and the rest on the injuries and the players.

[RePLAY]

im with the "Scioscia needs to go group."  Some of you guys act like this is Scioscia's first year of fail.

 

"Rotation sucks, cant blame that on Scioscia"...well how did we do when we had Weaver, Santana, Haren, Grienke and Wilson?  Sometimes you just need a new voice in the clubhouse...it might work, it might not, but to stick to something that hasn't worked for years is crazy.

[Stradling]

Yea, RePlay, that is kind of how I feel. How did we do when we had those guys? Well when they pitched well we did really well. When Santana sucked and had to be limited to 5 innings, or when Wilson sucked for the second half of last year, well we weren't that great. Oh and Haren wasn't very good last year either. Honestly, I think Mike was really good when we had a lock down bullpen, and what manager wouldn't be.

[Tank]

But a new fresh coaching staff (with solid MLB experience) might be the first step towards a renewed fundamentals approach.

Having a GM who understands that numbers aren't all there is to the game would be a second step.

 

And totally agree with Claude that Moreno needs to take control and stop the org from being pulled in too many directions.  The MLB team has the definate look of the inmates running things.

Of the things you've mentioned, Sosh only has an impact (and it can be argued to what degree he has an impact) on fundamentals.

Dumping Sosh would not have any impact on the other things I mentioned (sucky bullpen, Blanton sucking, Pujols injury).

[Stradling]

He also wouldn't have an impact on advanced scouting of pitchers they are about to face, although he has gotten blame for that in this thread.

[RePLAY]

Yea, RePlay, that is kind of how I feel. How did we do when we had those guys? Well when they pitched well we did really well. When Santana sucked and had to be limited to 5 innings, or when Wilson sucked for the second half of last year, well we weren't that great. Oh and Haren wasn't very good last year either. Honestly, I think Mike was really good when we had a lock down bullpen, and what manager wouldn't be.

Bingo!

 

At what point do you have to put some blame on a manager? maybe not the first couple years of fail...but im sure if there is a point to fire one, this off-season will be the perfect time.

[RePLAY]

This might be the worst time to get rid of Mike. This season is over, we can all agree with that. So, what is the point of getting rid of him now? I am convinced that Mike will be re-assigned in the off-season and it is up to him to accept that role. If he doesn't then he will resign and Arte won't have to pay him all of that money. What would really be the point of letting him go now? I have been called a Scioscia Apologist, but anyone that has been following this board or pay attention to what I have said the last few months know that I am in favor of replacing him in the off-season. That being said, this isn't all on Mike, as a matter of opinion it is so much more on the players and the health of some players than it is on Mike. I would actually probably put about 10% of the blame on Mike, 20% on Dipoto and the rest on the injuries and the players.

I agree with you.  You don't get rid of him now.  You do it at the off-season.

[mtangelsfan]

Frankly at this point I'm pretty "meh" about Sosh.  That doesn't mean that I believe a change in managers will have any significant effect on this group of bumblers.  

 

I give Dipoto one more season and then I dump him if there is not some real improvement.  So far, I haven't been impressed at all.

[mancini79]

Today's ump must have read this thread and sent him packing, at least for 1 game.

[stormngt]

I would call it the best big check Arte has written in 4 or 5 years.

That is real intelligent.  Write an 18 million dollar check so Scioscia won't manage the Angels and still lose.  Yet you say it was the best check he wrote in four years......real smart.

[stormngt]

This might be the worst time to get rid of Mike. This season is over, we can all agree with that. So, what is the point of getting rid of him now? I am convinced that Mike will be re-assigned in the off-season and it is up to him to accept that role. If he doesn't then he will resign and Arte won't have to pay him all of that money. What would really be the point of letting him go now? I have been called a Scioscia Apologist, but anyone that has been following this board or pay attention to what I have said the last few months know that I am in favor of replacing him in the off-season. That being said, this isn't all on Mike, as a matter of opinion it is so much more on the players and the health of some players than it is on Mike. I would actually probably put about 10% of the blame on Mike, 20% on Dipoto and the rest on the injuries and the players.

that is not necessarily true.  Many managers (especially established ones with leverage) negotiate that their contract is job specific.  If that is case then Sosh can't just be reassigned as you say.  He would have to be bought out.  Under this circumstance (I do not know the details of Sosh's contract) If Moreno fires Sosh he has to pay the entire contract.  The only leverage Moreno would have is that Sosh couldn't manage anyone else during that time.  But basically, Sosh could go on vacation for five years and Moreno would still have to pay him.

 

What usually happens is a buy out.  This is where Moreno doesn't pay his full obligation in exchange Sosh would be free to pursue other managerial options.  The buy outs are usually around 75 to 50% of the value contracts.  Although the only one I  know of where the buy out was 50% of the contract is where the coach had a "DUI" on his record.  

[stormngt]

Today's ump must have read this thread and sent him packing, at least for 1 game.

funny

[m0nkey]

How does every scioscia thread go 5 pages? Hasn't everything been discussed before?