Now is the time to relieve Scioscia of his duties

[Brandon Wing]

Maybe I'm just naive but isn't the whole organization failing at this point? I just don't see how anyone can be above criticism or have job security. 

[Lifetime]

Blaming players is just such a cop out. You either blame the person bringing in the players (Dipoto), the person coaching the players (Scioscia, Butcher, etc.), or both. I definitely blame both of them for how bad this team is...they both need to lose their jobs for this.

Blaming the players for poor execution is not a cop out, not in the least. Execution or skill level is not the responsibility of the manager or coach. The GM's role is to bring in the best pieces to field a competitive team. If the pieces he provides are mediocre, that's on him. You don't then turn to your manager/coaches and expect them to turn mediocre players into all stars. If the GM goes out and acquires big names that have produced well over their careers and they fail to produce to expectations (even within expected decline rates), that's not on the GM or the manager/coaches - it's on the player. This entire season would be completely different if we had a better SP than Blanton (Dipoto), Weaver doesn't suffer a fluke injury, Hamilton doesn't disappear and Pujols doesn't have a debilitating condition. Despite all of the other struggles, which in my opinion are related to trying to over compensate for the team's shortcomings (see previous list), this season would have been a completely different story. I don't care what manager/coaches were in the dugout, it would not have changed the outcome of the season. 

[Ohtaniland]

When it all clears down the drain the end result certainly shows that getting rid of Wells, Hunter and Morales didn't improve us in the standings. This entire organization needs a cleansing but I have no faith in Dipoto to get it done while co-existing with Scioscia. Between Pujols, Scioscia, Dipoto and Arte this team is headed in four different directions.

[Angel Oracle]

New manager wouldn't stop Pujols from being injured or Hamilton from sucking (though maybe a different hitting coach might).

New manager wouldn't stop Blanton from sucking.

New manager wouldn't have made our bullpen less sucky.

New manager wouldn't keep our base runners from making idiotic mistakes.

There's definitely an argument to be made for in game management decisions, but not sure it's enough to warrant a change.

But a new fresh coaching staff (with solid MLB experience) might be the first step towards a renewed fundamentals approach.

Having a GM who understands that numbers aren't all there is to the game would be a second step.

 

And totally agree with Claude that Moreno needs to take control and stop the org from being pulled in too many directions.  The MLB team has the definate look of the inmates running things.

[nate]

Also, it is moronic to have a Manager and GM with two different approaches to the game.

[FabulousFabregas]

This made me laugh.

You never see these threads when the team is winning. Same with the Dodgers, coach was on the hot seat to be fired, now they're winning and in 1st so he must be coaching better.

The Angels haven't won anything in 4 years.

[Angel Oracle]

How many owners woud allow a GM and a manager with two different philosophies to stay with the team beyond two years?

[Homebrewer]

Blaming the players for poor execution is not a cop out, not in the least. Execution or skill level is not the responsibility of the manager or coach. The GM's role is to bring in the best pieces to field a competitive team. If the pieces he provides are mediocre, that's on him. You don't then turn to your manager/coaches and expect them to turn mediocre players into all stars. If the GM goes out and acquires big names that have produced well over their careers and they fail to produce to expectations (even within expected decline rates), that's not on the GM or the manager/coaches - it's on the player. This entire season would be completely different if we had a better SP than Blanton (Dipoto), Weaver doesn't suffer a fluke injury, Hamilton doesn't disappear and Pujols doesn't have a debilitating condition. Despite all of the other struggles, which in my opinion are related to trying to over compensate for the team's shortcomings (see previous list), this season would have been a completely different story. I don't care what manager/coaches were in the dugout, it would not have changed the outcome of the season. 

 I don't care what manager/coaches were in the dugout, it would not have changed the outcome of the season.

 

Link? I would like to see some solid information that proves this.

Are you trying to tell me that if Scioscia and Butcher, et al, were in the dugout in Oakland, that the A's would still be in fist place?

I haven't seen you post this much OPINION all season. You usually post snide one word snikkers

When Scioscia  becomes the topic you are full of opinions.

Well...show me some proof that this team would be just as bad without Scioscia.

You can't play your own game when Scioscia is the topic, can you?

[Homebrewer]

With Kendrick and Aybar clearly and openly on the market, this team is being blown up at the core.
The Scioscia-ball era is over.

It would be stupid to take a new trip, down a new road, in a whole new direction...with the same beat up old clunker that broke down a few miles from home in past few trips. Trade in the clunker.

[Lifetime]

 I don't care what manager/coaches were in the dugout, it would not have changed the outcome of the season.

 

Link? I would like to see some solid information that proves this.

Are you trying to tell me that if Scioscia and Butcher, et al, were in the dugout in Oakland, that the A's would still be in fist place?

I haven't seen you post this much OPINION all season. You usually post snide one word snikkers

When Scioscia  becomes the topic you are full of opinions.

Well...show me some proof that this team would be just as bad without Scioscia.

You can't play your own game when Scioscia is the topic, can you?

LOL! your and idoit.

 

I'm not making a claim of facts, I'm stating an opinion. I'm no making a claim of facts and no proof is necessary so your request is denied. 

 

I post my opinions liberally here (and not just on Scioscia - far from it) all the time and have for years, so you are wrong again, as usual.

[Homebrewer]

LOL! your and idoit.

 

I'm not making a claim of facts, I'm stating an opinion. I'm no making a claim of facts and no proof is necessary so your request is denied. 

 

I post my opinions liberally here (and not just on Scioscia - far from it) all the time and have for years, so you are wrong again, as usual.

Lee Lives!

[Vladfan]

So...it is the players that are failing...not Dipoto, right?

Absolutely!!! I never mentioned anything about Dipotos role in this.

Sosh is putting the players on the field that he is given. Was it the managers fault last night?? No... He put his best player for that situation.

[stevestevens]

There have been a lot of interesting points brought forward in this thread.  The most shocking thing that i have learned is that AJ thinks Scioscia has done nothing wrong and the players are the only one at fault.

[Vladfan]

Blaming players is just such a cop out. You either blame the person bringing in the players (Dipoto), the person coaching the players (Scioscia, Butcher, etc.), or both. I definitely blame both of them for how bad this team is...they both need to lose their jobs for this.

Bullshit

[FireThemAll]

Bullshit

 

Thanks for the very informative response. So let me get this straight...you're saying that the last 4 years the players are to blame even though most of the players have changed over the last 4 years? LOL that's what I'd expect out of you pollynannas.

[stevestevens]

What's a pollynanna?

[mtangelsfan]

Thanks for the very informative response. So let me get this straight...you're saying that the last 4 years the players are to blame even though most of the players have changed over the last 4 years? LOL that's what I'd expect out of you pollynannas.

 

If they aren't good players it wouldn't matter how many years in a row it was.

[Glen]

What's a pollynanna?

 

 

Mother of a parrot, evidently. 

[FireThemAll]

If they aren't good players it wouldn't matter how many years in a row it was.

 

He has been given plenty of talent. It's on him and his coaching staff that most of the players perform better once traded to other teams.

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

Blaming players is just such a cop out. You either blame the person bringing in the players (Dipoto), the person coaching the players (Scioscia, Butcher, etc.), or both. I definitely blame both of them for how bad this team is...they both need to lose their jobs for this.

The manager is usually the first person that loses his job. Scioscia should lose his job. Dipoto should be on the hot seat soon (if he already isn't), and the players definitely deserve a lot of the blame too.

[Troll Daddy]

I would stick with MS if he still wants the job.

[Vladfan]

Thanks for the very informative response. So let me get this straight...you're saying that the last 4 years the players are to blame even though most of the players have changed over the last 4 years? LOL that's what I'd expect out of you polynannas.

Look... You or nobody else on this board will convince me that Sosh is the problem here. The players have a responsibility to execute on the field and the manager has to manage the situations during the game. These are not little kids that need him to hold their hands before, during and after a game. He is putting the players on the field, that Dipoto gave him, to play the game and give him the best chance to win. Not his fault if they can't execute.

[Blarg]

Gentlemen, I have gone though and removed a lot of posts that never should have happened. Let's get back to bitching about the season and Scioscia like we always do.

[OregonLAA]

Lifetime: we would still be making tons of errors and and having terrible approaches at the plate even if Hamilton and Pujols were hitting and Blanton wasn't signed. I'm willing to make a bet that if there is a change in manager next year, we make the post season.

Scioscia doesn't have to keep putting Blanton out there. How long did that take for him to figure out? A .250 hitter in the 3 spot all year? Very questionable bullpen decisions almost every other night. I'd love it if we won under Scioscia but I don't see it happening

[stormngt]

Arte does.  In fact, his banker probably has carpal tunnel from repeatedly writing checks to pay for Angels mistakes, going all the way back to the first one Arte had to write off, Kevin Appier (that was the largest $$ DFA ever made, to that point).

 

Arte does have the money your right.  However, Arte didn't make that type of money by frivolously throwing it away.

 

This isn't monopoly money were are talking about.

 

Firing Scioscia is much different than dumping an under performing player like Wells or GMJ.  With those two there were clear indications that they failed at their job.  They couldn't hit any more.  And they had obviously better options so changes had to be made.

 

With Scioscia, it is debatable that the teams failures on are him.  Yes, there is the argument that the team isn't responding to him.  Yes you can see the failures of not making the playoffs.  I do believe Scioscia substitution pattern in 2012 caused their slow start.  I do believe Scioscia style leads to teams not taking the early months seriously.  However, there is no clear "better option" than Scioscia.  There is no one you can name and hire that you can guarantee would do better than Sosh.  If Scioscia had a one year contract I would bet he would be fired.  But with five years left and no clearly better options will probably save his job.