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OF-1B-DH logjam - a solution


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Trout, obviously, isn't going anywhere - neither is Pujols or Hamilton. That's clear enough. That's two OF and one 1B or DH spot, so we've got two spots left and three players: Trumbo, Bourjos, and Calhoun.

 

I've heard lots of different opinions about who the Angels should trade. I personally think the Angels should field offers for Trumbo but keep Bourjos and Calhoun. I really want to see a full year from Bourjos and Trout in the OF. Calhoun has more potential value than trade value so should be kept. Plus I just like him a lot - I think he could surprise and be a solidly above average player, maybe even a borderline star. He belongs on this team, not as a trade chip.

 

I've advocated trading Trumbo, but it has to be for the right player - either a top pitching prospect or a solid youngish #3. If the Angels can't get enough for him, then they should keep him.

 

That leaves them with six starters for five spots. I say, good! With those six players the Angels have a lot of flexibility and can have a nice rotation going. Someone will miss time to injury, and if that someone miraculously doesn't happen you can still rotate them through. Something like this:

 

Games Started:

162 x 5 spots = 810 starts / 6 players = average of 135 per player

 

Obviously Trout starts 155. Pujols starts 145-150, Hamilton 140-145. That's 365 left for three players. Trumbo and Bourjos start 130-140 each, which leaves about 100 starts for Calhoun, who can pad that with late game replacements and still get into about 120 games.

 

Again, this assumes no injuries, which is unlikely. JB Shuck can be the 5th outfielder.

 

So I say, keep 'em all! Yes, field offers, but unless you're wowed, keep them and have a very strong OF/1B/DH next year.

 

 

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You re-up Vargas. Give Richards as many starts as possible for the rest of the year. See if Hanson can find the form he showed in his first start back.

 

Then you dangle Howie Kendrick in the offseason, see if you can get either a top pitching prospect or a youngish #3, or throw in a couple expendable prospects (Cron, Grichuk) for a #2. Then, if someone bites, you give Lindsey the job - he's not far away from holding his own. I also think Field could surprise, or Callaspo plays 2B and Jimenez plays 3B.

 

Then you have Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Richards, Hanson, and possibly whatever #2-3 you get for Howie. If that doesn't work, you sign a free agent.

 

Voila.

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Then you have Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Richards, Hanson, and possibly whatever #2-3 you get for Howie. If that doesn't work, you sign a free agent.

 

Voila.

 

Here are the potential free agent starting pitchers in 2014 (the ones marked with an asterisk have team options and may or may not be available). You may recognize a few names on this list.

 

Bronson Arroyo

Scott Baker

Erik Bedard

Nick Blackburn *

A.J. Burnett

Chris Capuano *

Chris Carpenter

Bruce Chen

Bartolo Colon

Aaron Cook

Jorge De La Rosa

Scott Feldman

Gavin Floyd

Jeff Francis

Armando Galarraga

Jon Garland

Matt Garza

Roy Halladay *

Jason Hammel

Aaron Harang *

Rich Harden

Dan Haren

Roberto Hernandez

Tim Hudson

Phil Hughes

Ubaldo Jimenez *

Josh Johnson

Jeff Karstens

Hiroki Kuroda

John Lannan

Jon Lester *

Colby Lewis

Ted Lilly

Tim Lincecum

Derek Lowe

Paul Maholm

Shaun Marcum

Jason Marquis

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Brett Myers *

Ricky Nolasco

Mike Pelfrey

Andy Pettitte

Wandy Rodriguez *

Jonathan Sanchez

Ervin Santana

Johan Santana *

Joe Saunders *

James Shields *

Tim Stauffer

Jason Vargas

Ryan Vogelsong *

Edinson Volquez

Tsuyoshi Wada *

Chien-Ming Wang

Chris Young

Barry Zito

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AJ, I rather respect your opinion, but your idea on the rotation just isn't something I can get on board with.  Regardless of specifics, we know one thing from this year, a rotation of Weav, Wilson, Vargas and Hanson simply will not cut it in the AL West.  If the Angels want to win, they'll need to upgrade and in a big way.

 

I'm on board with Weav, Wilson and Richards.  Those guys slot well as a 1,2 and 5.  The issue is, the teams that are the most successful, have the best young pitching.  Even though Hanson has some value and Vargas was solid for the Angels, those two aren't going to be the difference between a sub-500 team and a playoff team.  The Angels need two very good starters to slot into the #3 and 4 spots.

 

I say they make a qualifying offer to Vargas, that way they get their early draft pick, then after that, deal Hanson for a decent prospect (you know the Royals will bring in SP wherever they can), then see if you can get a Hellickson type for non-essential personnel that still hold considerable value, like Kendrick, Cron, Grichuk and Yarbrough.  

 

After that, it's just a matter of spending the money.  Garza or Kuroda.  Even Phil Hughes may not be an awful idea. 

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Kuroda im pretty sure said its NY or Japan and Phil Hughes sucks.

What I would do: Re-sign Vargas, non tender Hanson. Trade Frieri for Smyly. Trade one of Howie or Aybar for a good pitching prospect close to being major league ready. Release Blanton

1. Weaver

2. Wilson

3. Vargas

4. Smyly

5. Richards

With the prospect we get continuing to develop in the minors

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These are the only Free Agents I would have any interest in.

Matt Garza[/size]Phil Hughes[/size]Josh Johnson[/size]James Shields *[/size]Jason Vargas[/size]

Its definitely a weak class. There will be a lot of overpaying. I would stay far away other than resigning Vargas

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Trout, obviously, isn't going anywhere - neither is Pujols or Hamilton. That's clear enough. That's two OF and one 1B or DH spot, so we've got two spots left and three players: Trumbo, Bourjos, and Calhoun.

 

I've heard lots of different opinions about who the Angels should trade. I personally think the Angels should field offers for Trumbo but keep Bourjos and Calhoun. I really want to see a full year from Bourjos and Trout in the OF. Calhoun has more potential value than trade value so should be kept. Plus I just like him a lot - I think he could surprise and be a solidly above average player, maybe even a borderline star. He belongs on this team, not as a trade chip.

 

I've advocated trading Trumbo, but it has to be for the right player - either a top pitching prospect or a solid youngish #3. If the Angels can't get enough for him, then they should keep him.

 

That leaves them with six starters for five spots. I say, good! With those six players the Angels have a lot of flexibility and can have a nice rotation going. Someone will miss time to injury, and if that someone miraculously doesn't happen you can still rotate them through. Something like this:

 

Games Started:

162 x 5 spots = 810 starts / 6 players = average of 135 per player

 

Obviously Trout starts 155. Pujols starts 145-150, Hamilton 140-145. That's 365 left for three players. Trumbo and Bourjos start 130-140 each, which leaves about 100 starts for Calhoun, who can pad that with late game replacements and still get into about 120 games.

 

Again, this assumes no injuries, which is unlikely. JB Shuck can be the 5th outfielder.

 

So I say, keep 'em all! Yes, field offers, but unless you're wowed, keep them and have a very strong OF/1B/DH next year.

 

Why not keep all four of them?

 

We would have six players for five positions:  RF, CF, LF, 1b, and DH.  Depth is one issue this year and wouldn't be nice to have quality depth?  All 6 should get sufficient playing time!

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Here are the potential free agent starting pitchers in 2014 (the ones marked with an asterisk have team options and may or may not be available). You may recognize a few names on this list.

 

Bronson Arroyo

Scott Baker

Erik Bedard

Nick Blackburn *

A.J. Burnett

Chris Capuano *

Chris Carpenter

Bruce Chen

Bartolo Colon

Aaron Cook

Jorge De La Rosa

Scott Feldman

Gavin Floyd

Jeff Francis

Armando Galarraga

Jon Garland

Matt Garza

Roy Halladay *

Jason Hammel

Aaron Harang *

Rich Harden

Dan Haren

Roberto Hernandez

Tim Hudson

Phil Hughes

Ubaldo Jimenez *

Josh Johnson

Jeff Karstens

Hiroki Kuroda

John Lannan

Jon Lester *

Colby Lewis

Ted Lilly

Tim Lincecum

Derek Lowe

Paul Maholm

Shaun Marcum

Jason Marquis

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Brett Myers *

Ricky Nolasco

Mike Pelfrey

Andy Pettitte

Wandy Rodriguez *

Jonathan Sanchez

Ervin Santana

Johan Santana *

Joe Saunders *

James Shields *

Tim Stauffer

Jason Vargas

Ryan Vogelsong *

Edinson Volquez

Tsuyoshi Wada *

Chien-Ming Wang

Chris Young

Barry Zito

I say we sign colon for 20 million!

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SigBaby....LOL!!! Vargas and Smyly

I understand Vargas is more of a 4 than he is a 3, but i think Smyly can be a very good starter. Hes young and strikes out a ton of batters. He looks to me a lot like Chris Sale minus the upper to mid 90s fastball, as he sits in the low 90s.

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Richards has much to prove before giving him a spot in the rotation. One good outing and you guys are all over him.

Signing Vargas isn't going to be that easy but you have to give him a qualifying offer for sure.

I'm not so sure that the Angels are done with Blanton in the rotation,

Tommy Hanson is still a consideration for the rotation next season.

Angels need two good starting pitchers but I see them only signing one in the off-season and maybe trading for another.

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I just think it's difficult to envision Arte Moreno seeing the performance of this season's team and thinking to himself, "let's go with the same exact crew".  I can't say I know him personally but it just doesn't seem to be the way Moreno operates.  He's fiercely competitive and seems to be willing to go to far lengths to build a winner. 

 

Now I can't picture the offense changing too much unless it's Kendrick being part of a package that brings in a very good SP and replaced by Lindsey.  The bullpen probably won't change a great deal.  Frieri, Jepsen, Kohn, DDLR, Burnett and Blanton will all be in the mix.  Then throw in the likes of Nick Maronde, Brandon Sisk, Cory Rasmus, Mike Morin and R.J. Alvarez and suddenly this looks like a rather deep bunch (ignoring their performance the last two games). 

 

That just leaves the rotation.  We know Weaver and Wilson are the 1-2 punch, and we know that with the bullpen as currently constructed, it likely forces Richards into a starting role (which he's more than earned) as the 5th starter.  That just leaves two spots, Jason Vargas and Tommy Hanson.  If Arte is wanting to upgrade this squad and create a contender in 2014, this is the place he'll do it.  It's pretty much their only option.  Vargas will get his qualifying offer and Hanson has value, but the Angels absolutely need more, a lot more than what those two bring. 

 

That's why I think Dipoto (assuming he still has a job) goes for a big splash trade (like Hellickson) and Arte flashes as much gold as possible to bring in someone like Garza.  Whatever the case, I think if the Angels are looking to be better in 2014, there's really only two places to upgrade, and that's the 3rd and 4th SP.  Because we already know that Vargas and Hanson do not equal playoffs. 

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  • 1 month later...

Worth resuscitating. I think Calhoun is making it very difficult not to give him a starting job on Opening Day - he's been the Angels' second best hitter this year, even if in limited time. At the least, I think he's good for a .280/.800 line with 15 HR and 10 SB.

 

It might be Bye-Bye Bourjos time. His trade value is down but still good enough to net, in combination with a Cron/Grichuk type prospect, a decent pitcher or a top pitching prospect.

 

Or maybe Trumbo's 35+ HR and 100+ RBI will entice someone. Either way, Trout and Hamilton aren't going anywhere, and I think Calhoun slots in third. So the Angels have space for only one of Trumbo or Bourjos, unless they go with a rotation in the OF/DH.

 

Another possibility would be to keep them and trade Kendrick for pitching. The Angels would have six players for five spots, with a total of 810 starts, averaging 135 per player. If we say that Trout gets 155, Pujols and Hamilton 145 each, that leaves 365 for Trumbo, Calhoun, and Bourjos - about 120 each. Let's say Trumbo gets 140, that's 225 for Calhoun and Bourjos. If we give 140 to Calhoun, that's only 85 left for Bourjos, but bear in mind two things: One, he'll get a lot of games as a pinch-runner and late-inning defensive replacement; two, the above assumes no injury and someone is going to miss time. If everyone is healthy come July, the Angels can trade one of Calhoun, Trumbo, or Bourjos if need be for pitching help.

 

Should be interesting to see how it plays out. Either way I think Howie's the main trade chip for a starter. Green makes him basically superfluous - or at least the gap between the two is small enough to be worth whatever Howie can bring in. If Green fumbles, you've got Lindsey on deck.

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BTW AJ and all, you guys keep promoting the idea of trading Trumbo, Kendrick or Bourjos and build a package of spare minor league parts and neglect to mention Shuck. If we are keeping a 4th or 5th spare outfielder you have Trumbo and Calhoun which makes Shuck disposable.

JB has shown he can be a starter or valuable bench guy but the Angels have a over stock of higher ceiling guys. So chuck Shuck into your trade scenarios and see if that doesn't create a better package than x player in the minors.

Kendrick/Shuck is going to net more interest than any minor league position player combo.

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I think you value Shuck more than I do, Mudville. To me he's just about the definition of a "replacement player." Don't get fooled by his .294 BA - his overall value is that of a replacement level player and thus easily, ah, replaceable. He's a solid 4th outfielder but not a starter on a contender.

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You re-up Vargas. Give Richards as many starts as possible for the rest of the year. See if Hanson can find the form he showed in his first start back.

 

Then you dangle Howie Kendrick in the offseason, see if you can get either a top pitching prospect or a youngish #3, or throw in a couple expendable prospects (Cron, Grichuk) for a #2. Then, if someone bites, you give Lindsey the job - he's not far away from holding his own. I also think Field could surprise, or Callaspo plays 2B and Jimenez plays 3B.

 

Then you have Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Richards, Hanson, and possibly whatever #2-3 you get for Howie. If that doesn't work, you sign a free agent.

 

Voila.

So you keep all the players at a spot that the team has surplus then trade howie in a position that they really have no major league quality replacement.

Brilliant.

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I'd worry about trading Bourjos... If Trout goes down who on the roster is capable of handling CF for a month? I don't think Calhoun can do that or Hamilton.

You could say that about every starter in the roster.

You would keep a player around in case the only player that has been healthy all last two years gets hurt?

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You could say that about every starter in the roster.

You would keep a player around in case the only player that has been healthy all last two years gets hurt?

 

I think we are fine in the event that our corner IF or 1B gets hurt. We have way more than enough depth to plug someone in. But that is just another reason for keeping Bourjos. Not the only reason. The other reasons have been mentioned already in this thread.

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