Clutch Players and Scioscia

[mtangelsfan]

Sosh's of course

[nate]

Again, approach, maybe if changed it wouldn't result in so many pop ups or GIDPs?

 

My favorite thing about this forum is some people defend Scioscia without fault and blame it all on the players.  If it is all on the players, why have a manager at all?  Why does it matter if Scioscia is still managing the team?  This isn't the NL.  All he does is write a lineup and make a couple pinch hit decisions.  According to you guys, he doesn't help hitters, he doesn't help pitchers, etc.

 

He certainly doesn't out perform the pantherian standings anymore.  By all metrics the team over the last four years has severely under performed.  It is pretty obvious to me that once he lost all of his star assistant coaches he was exposed as a hard headed, player friendly, overmatched manager.

[OregonLAA]

I just think it's interesting we have a team full of choke artists. Do I think it's directly affiliated with Sosh? No. But I think a team's hitting philosophy comes into play. The last 2 games were absolutely brutal to watch with RISP. I've never been this frustrated as an Angel fan

[mtangelsfan]

Again, approach, maybe if changed it wouldn't result in so many pop ups or GIDPs?

 

My favorite thing about this forum is some people defend Scioscia without fault and blame it all on the players.  If it is all on the players, why have a manager at all?  Why does it matter if Scioscia is still managing the team?  This isn't the NL.  All he does is write a lineup and make a couple pinch hit decisions.  According to you guys, he doesn't help hitters, he doesn't help pitchers, etc.

 

He certainly doesn't out perform the pantherian standings anymore.  By all metrics the team over the last four years has severely under performed.  It is pretty obvious to me that once he lost all of his star assistant coaches he was exposed as a hard headed, player friendly, overmatched manager.

complete strawman.  Even if it's time for him to go it doesn't mean that all or even most of the things going wrong are his fault.  If you don't want the people you call "sosh defenders" coming out, then stop making ridiculous claims about what he is to blame for.

[nate]

Ok so being unclutch is all on the player.  It has nothing to do with game plan, approach and interpretation of advanced scouting.

 

It is also all the players fault that they constantly struggle against crappy pitchers that they have never seen before.

 

I also think Scioscia has no idea how to manage a team like this.

 

I would be like hiring an offensive coordinator that specializes in the spread and asking them to run a pro offense.

[Mudville]

If you could hire a manager or even an instructor to teach players how to be Derek Jeter then you would see every team with 5 or 6 Derek Jeters. But the fact is it is all on the player and not the coaching when you are requiring a performance level so much greater than even what is distilled down to MLB rosters.

 

When you say Howie Kendrick isn't clutch what you are really saying is Kendrick is one step below a Jeter in player quality. You can't take him to that next level because he does not have that capability. The same with the rest of the infield and outfield. Hell we can't get a clone of Trout and he is on the team as a daily image of what playing at the top tier is supposed to look like and then JB Shuck grounds into a double play with the bases loaded.

 

They all play at their level. Some become marginally better as they learn the game, some are the same guy year in and year out no matter who is the manager/hitting coach/fielding instructor. But there is no make this guy Derek Jeter or Mike Trout coaches, there are only guys who are those players already. They may have help getting there quicker but they were always destined to play at that level.

[HaloFan85]

I think Oregon's point was their overall approach in those situations. The manager needs to find a way to help change that.

That's the problem with this team and why they suck so bad at situational hitting.  It's their approach, or lack thereof.

[Brandon]

Ok so being unclutch is all on the player. It has nothing to do with game plan, approach and interpretation of advanced scouting.

It is also all the players fault that they constantly struggle against crappy pitchers that they have never seen before.

I also think Scioscia has no idea how to manage a team like this.

I would be like hiring an offensive coordinator that specializes in the spread and asking them to run a pro offense.

I liken it to a QB throwing an INT to lose the game but blaming the coach for the play call.

It's just funny to see the bias people take on angles. For instance, you value coaching more but you take a guy like Tony Romo who gets crushed for being unclutch by people and the media yet you never hear people saying it's not his fault and Jason Garret's.

People seem to pick and choose when it's the players fault or the coaches.

[AZMike]

mike trout has a .967 ops with risp, but according to fangraphs, he's horrible..

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=3&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=12,a

 

The cluthcness stat is based on leverage -- meaning how well a player does in situatios which have a significant effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Trout has lots of RBI's in blowout games. For example he hit for the cycle in a game which the Angels won 12-0.

 

He's also struck out with bases loaded, two outs, Angels down by one in the 9th IIRC more than once. This latter situation is high leverage.

[Mudville]

The cluthcness stat is based on leverage -- meaning how well a player does in situatios which have a significant effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Trout has lots of RBI's in blowout games. For example he hit for the cycle in a game which the Angels won 12-0.

 

He's also struck out with bases loaded, two outs, Angels down by one in the 9th IIRC more than once. This latter situation is high leverage.

 

Your statement of striking out in the 9th with bases loaded is anecdotal. Trout in high leverage situations for his career is .299/.354/.467/.821 with 6 home runs and 65 RBI.

[mancini79]

Great, now Sosh is responsible for myths?! Is it also his fault that BigFoot is on the loose. What's next, if you say "Bloody Aybar" 2 times in the dark his face appears?

[Mudville]

All I am going to say is don't do that three times, Mancini. Just don't.

[tdawg87]

Mike Scioscia was responsible for 9/11.

[Stradling]

I don't blame Scioscia for a lack of clutchness. I know a lot of people think chemistry is a myth, but I find merit in it. I also think how a player feels about his role on a team has a ton to do with how they perform in those situations. Personally I play better on teams where I am one of the leaders. I also play better when the team is loose and having a good time. Granted I'm not a professional but I find it more about the psychology of a player than the level of the player if that makes sense.

[Stradling]

Scioscia made the call to kill old yeller

[Jay]

and he killed Bambi's mom

[Lifetime]

And Bambi went on to be a porn star

[Adam]

Scioscia made the call to kill old yeller

WTF? Old Yeller is dead?

[EDinTUSTIN]

And Bambi went on to be a porn star

LOL