Why can't we have a bullpen like the Cardinals?

[fan_since79]

Bunch of guys with ERA's under 2.70

 

What are we missing here that they have??

 

Mujica's stats are ridiculous, for example: 30 K's, 2 BB.

 

 

[nate]

They haven't traded away 15 pitching prospects in the last five years.

[jshep]

They haven't traded away 15 pitching prospects in the last five years.

 

This, and they've done a better job of bringing talent into their system whether through the draft or the international markets(Hi AO!), in my opinion. 

 

How much of that you want to divide up between being better at it and how much is good fortune(which is certainly a factor with these things) is up for debate.

[CaliAngel]

Consider we have 272 walks given up by our pitching staff, 7th worst out of 30 teams, and 362 earned runs against our staff, 3rd highest in MLB, and the question really answers itself.

 

Keep giving up free base-runners and Major League teams will find a way to get them in. 

[Docwaukee]

we used to. 

 

Angels pens from 2002-2009. 

3rd highest WAR of 40.5.  (about 5 per year)

2nd highest WPA 45.14.  (about 5.6 per year)

2nd highest ERA 3.66. 

5th best BB/9. 

4th best SO/9.

Least mount of blown saves with 133

 

 

2010-2013

6th lowest WAR of 4.1 (about a shade over 1.25/yr)

10th lowest WPA of 1.6 (about 0.25/year)

12th lowest ERA 3.85

2nd worst BB/9

3rd worst K/9

10th most blown saves with 71

 

It's been my contention for quite some time that this is the biggest reason why the team has failed to do well the last 3.5 years.   The lack of a legit closer and trading away tons of farm depth mostly in the form of pitching.  The reliance upon FA and/or retreads or other teams slop.  It's been a recipe for disaster. 

 

The main thing that I hoped JD would fix this last offseason was the pen.  It was clear that the SP would be mediocre relative to who was returning and what was available.  Yet, rebuilding a pen is less of a challenge.  If you are gonna go all in with Pujols and Hamilton, you have to do the same with your pen.  To me, if you are the gm and Mike Scioscia is your manager then you have to be aware of the fact that you are likely to find yourself in a lot of close games. 

[Hoops McCann]

In order to have a bullpen like the Cardinals, an organization needs to have a solid farm.  Unfortunately, the Angels dont.

 

If you look at the relievers, almost all of them were brought up from the minor leagues. 

 

Trevor Rosenthal, Seth Manness, Seigrist, Butler...all in the minor leagues this year (except Rosenthal, who was a September call-up last year).

 

But, please remember, at the beginning of the season the Cardinals pen was horrific due to Boggs and Rzep.

[JAHV76]

The cardinals have also not lost first round draft picks due to free agents signed over the last several years

[CardsFanVegas]

Cards have a lot of young arms in the farm system and a lot of rookies this year.   

 

Siegrest has yet to give up a run.

 

A few of the veterans on the team, Boogs and Scrabble, were sent to Memphis for poor performance.   Its perform or get replaced by someone who will.

 

Rosenthal is perhaps the most interesting with the 100mph fastball.    Some of these guys would probably be starters if there wasn't such an abundence of young talent.

 

Not bad for losing Motte for the year to TJ surgery.

[CaliAngel]

Abundance of young talent? 

I don't even...

[Bashbrothers]

Bullpens are random.  They had a bad one last year.  But you can improve your chance of a good one by stocking up young arms and throwing what sticks in it.

[WallyWorld]

Why can't we have a ______ like the _______? Fill it in as you wish.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

A few of the veterans on the team, Boogs and Scrabble, were sent to Memphis for poor performance.   Its perform or get replaced by someone who will.

 

We have a different philosophy here. It's perform or keep getting run out there until you do - no matter how long it takes.

[Jason]

The Halos don't have the talent in the pen. Most of those guys are marginal players at best.

[Taylor]

[gurn67]

Same reason we're the third best team in the division. Smarter ownership.

[Docwaukee]

In retrospect, I guess it's somewhat difficult to blame JD for not being able to completely transform the pen overnight.  Previously successful bullpens were a consequence of predominately in house players.  With the last two drafts under Wilson and JD focused on replenishing the pitching and in particular on the reliever side of things with a bunch of college arms being brought in, it appears that they are working in that direction.  Recent trades have really sapped the depth in this area though.  The reagins era really decimated the pen big time. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1. Scouting

 

2. Player development

 

3. Coaching at the major league level

 

4. They're all under 32 years old, which is the age at which we start getting interested in a player

[Docwaukee]

Also, this year's pen has performed much better than the previous three years.  We are moving in the right direction.  Depending on what stats you look at, we are around the upper third in WAR, WPA and ERA

[Vegas Halo Fan]

One real departure from last year is the number of blown saves. The Angels have seven blown saves so far this season. Only two teams in baseball have fewer: Texas with four and the Yankees with three. The leader in that category is the Cubs with 17 (the Dodgers have one less; Carlos Marmol should help them catch his old team). The AL leader is Baltimore with 16.

[tdawg87]

That's because they haven't had enough leads to blow.

[Docwaukee]

this thread helped as well. 

[tomsred]

More expert analysis.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

This might not be the best night to ask that question.

[haloman]

We do. Rofl!

Cuck the Fardinals.

[Lou]

Because we're not in the NL