Part of Obamacare Delayed a Year

[Spirit]

And I've spent 15+ years working as a director and program manager in the healthcare space. I've never doubted Nate knew his shit in this area...I like browsing through his thoughts on the subject.

 

 

So we have at least 2 people in the thread that know their s**t.  Both seems to disagree on whether Obamacare vs. no-Obamacare is a better/worse thing.  

[Adam]

Forcing people to have coverage for a service that statistically almost everyone will need at some point in their lives, is fundamentally worse than someone who can't get coverage because they were born with a genetic defect? Or not being able to afford a life saving treatment because you are a small business owner (and his wife and small child) that was dropped from your health plan after your first bought with cancer? Fundamentally worse than having to throw fund raisers to pay for your life saving treatments (I attended two last month for friends who can't afford the medical bills associated with their cancer treatments).

 

I think we have differing viewpoints on that.

 

As for halobob...the Supreme Court has ruled on that...you are wrong.

 

Yeah. I think force is wronger

[nate]

Forcing people to have coverage for a service that statistically almost everyone will need at some point in their lives, is fundamentally worse than someone who can't get coverage because they were born with a genetic defect? Or not being able to afford a life saving treatment because you are a small business owner (and his wife and small child) that was dropped from your health plan after your first bought with cancer? Fundamentally worse than having to throw fund raisers to pay for your life saving treatments (I attended two last month for friends who can't afford the medical bills associated with their cancer treatments).

 

I think we have differing viewpoints on that.

 

As for halobob...the Supreme Court has ruled on that...you are wrong.

 

Actually they have not.  The Supreme Court said they cannot rule on it until the legislation goes into effect on 1/1/14 because it is a tax act.

[red321]

Yeah. I think force is wronger

You probably wouldn't get my vote

[Adam]

You probably wouldn't get my vote

 

Not even for HOA Secretary?

[red321]

Actually they have not.  The Supreme Court said they cannot rule on it until the legislation goes into effect on 1/1/14 because it is a tax act.

 

 

I stand corrected...though I don't think expect them to change their position...calling it a tax gave Roberts a way out of keeping the law while ensuring limits on the Commerce Clause. What grounds would people target it in 2014 once it goes in to effect?

[red321]

Not even for HOA Secretary?

 

I'd probably be ok with you setting rules for what color someone could paint their house

[nate]

Also the Supreme Court said that they believed it was not constitutional but they couldn't rule on it until 1/1/14

[Spirit]

I'd probably be ok with you setting rules for what color someone could paint their house

 

 

"... little pink houses, for you and me ..."

[red321]

Also the Supreme Court said that they believed it was not constitutional but they couldn't rule on it until 1/1/14

 

At this point I think you've lost me and you need to point me to a link stating that. Every piece I read on the decision stated it was declared constitutional and I cannot find reference to anything regarding them not being able to rule on it until 2014. Doesn't mean they did...just that I haven't seen that anywhere and would appreciate a link (did a quick search...didn't find anything)

[Spirit]

As much as the GOP has been fighting against this legislation, it would be hysterical if they opened an investigation into why the President is going to delay it. 

 

 

 

 

(wait for it...)

 

 

 

 

Oh hey!  Look what the House of Representatives is doing!  http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/309223-republicans-investigate-obamacare-delay

[red321]

I think it's appropriate to get a status check...absolutely. If they were interested in actually understanding the entire scope they'd pull in governor's from some of the states refusing to expand Medicaid or implementing their own exchanges as well.

 

I'm guessing witch hunt probably is more in line with that they are thinking though...maybe Grand Theft Issa can request some slanted reports with a very narrow search criteria for this as well.

[Spirit]

If Issa needs some slanted reports I have no doubt the White House will be able to provide those. 

[saangels]

Does this mean that i have to wait another year to have surgery on my torn meniscus?  What a joke.  I understand the frustration on the side of big business, but for God's sake, what a ridiculous country I live in where I work 40 hours a week and can't afford to have a doctor even LOOK AT my knee.   

[Mudville]

Rub some dirt on it and get back to work.

[saangels]

LOL at all the "healthy young people who don't need insurance."  The first thing they need is a brain scan.

 

Only frauds get insurance with the intent to use it immediately.  The point is to be financially secure in case something unexpected happens, e.g., car accidents, serious illness, etc.  Just because young people FEEL indestructable, it doesn't mean that they are.

[Lifetime]

The bottom line is SA, young people utilize their insurance far less than older people. The point is the risk that the insurance companies have to take on. A mix of younger people in the pool brings down the overall risk of the pool versus a pool of predominantly older people. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I agree they should look at reforms, use the existing legislation as a basis and get to work amending what needs to be amended. Did they take on too much at once? Looks like they did...but they've also instituted some solid improvements like covering dependents until 26, coverage for people with catastrophic or pre-existing conditions/high-risk pools, the exchanges appears to be showing changes if CA is any example (it is), and reports are showing that healthcare costs are actually starting to level off or grow at rates less than projected without any reforms. There are positive developments.

 

I make no secret of my hatred of private health insurance companies, and they have worked hard to earn it over the years. They are glad to cover you as long as they don't have to pay, and if they do, they start looking for ways to cancel you. If you have anything that might make you a risk when you sign up, they don't want you. In the most industrialized and prosperous country in the world. there is no excuse for people going bankrupt over health care bills.

 

That said, this headlong rush to put everything together in one big chunk has been a disaster. There are portions of the ACA that are good ideas, and other portions that are terrible. I believe that the main mistake was trying to do everything in one go.

 

I don't know how you get the horse back in the barn at this point, if it is even possible. As far as alternatives, about the only one I heard from the GOP was to funnel more money to private insurance companies, which is laughable unless they are required to insure everyone at a cost that is affordable. Pouring more money down the same hole fixes nothing. Pouring more money down a different one probably won't, either.

[halobob]

Forcing people to have coverage for a service that statistically almost everyone will need at some point in their lives, is fundamentally worse than someone who can't get coverage because they were born with a genetic defect? Or not being able to afford a life saving treatment because you are a small business owner (and his wife and small child) that was dropped from your health plan after your first bought with cancer? Fundamentally worse than having to throw fund raisers to pay for your life saving treatments (I attended two last month for friends who can't afford the medical bills associated with their cancer treatments).

 

I think we have differing viewpoints on that.

 

As for halobob...the Supreme Court has ruled on that...you are wrong.

I disagree with the Supreme Court's ruling.  

[halobob]

LOL at all the "healthy young people who don't need insurance."  The first thing they need is a brain scan.

 

Only frauds get insurance with the intent to use it immediately.  The point is to be financially secure in case something unexpected happens, e.g., car accidents, serious illness, etc.  Just because young people FEEL indestructable, it doesn't mean that they are.

I know I am not indestructible.  But I also value my money.  In the last 5 years I have been to the doctors office twice.  Once for stitches for a gash I got under my eye (cost $350) and once for a stomach ailment likely caused by the recall of frosted mini wheats cereal ($125).  If I had been paying for insurance throughout this time I would've spend much more money.  I will get health and life insurance when I am ready to have kids as that is when I feel the cost will actually be worth what it provides for me.

[red321]

I know I am not indestructible.  But I also value my money.  In the last 5 years I have been to the doctors office twice.  Once for stitches for a gash I got under my eye (cost $350) and once for a stomach ailment likely caused by the recall of frosted mini wheats cereal ($125).  If I had been paying for insurance throughout this time I would've spend much more money.  I will get health and life insurance when I am ready to have kids as that is when I feel the cost will actually be worth what it provides for me.

 

Luckily the rest of us will be there to pick up the tab via higher rates and costs if something tragic happens to you prior to that time

[St1ck]

If everyone just operated on themselves like Vic The Ghost does, there would be no issues.

[halobob]

Luckily the rest of us will be there to pick up the tab via higher rates and costs if something tragic happens to you prior to that time

You can think whatever makes you rest easier at night red.

[red321]

Easy for the person using others to provide their safety net to say

[Spirit]

Easy for the person using others to provide their safety net to say

 

 

That sounds so old GOP white guy.